John Ashcroft

Mr. ASHCROFT

Mr. ASHCROFT. That is a very significant point here, and if I just take you to the schools, and the best information we have in this debate is what the Senator from Tennessee has brought us, that they are treated deferentially and a significant number of them are back in schools prematurely because the schools feel like they have to let them back in at a time when, according to their testimony, they are uncomfortable about it.

Mr. ASHCROFT. You are asking me that question?

Mr. ASHCROFT. That is different than with other students.

Mr. ASHCROFT. When you talk about a manifestation of a disability, what does that mean? That you bring a gun to school because you are disabled? Is that what you are saying? Or could that mean because you are severely emotionally disturbed, for instance?

Mr. ASHCROFT. In all deference to the Senator, the law is clear and the law provides substantial disparate or different treatment, and the treatment which is different causes very serious problems in the real world. It causes problems because we let students who bring guns into school back into the school system because of this system.

Mr. ASHCROFT. The principal can do that.

Mr. ASHCROFT. They have responsibilities when they do that that they don't have with other students.

Mr. ASHCROFT. That is related to whether or not his disability or special education status caused or was related to the bringing and brandishing of the gun?

Mr. ASHCROFT. So it could be that a student who is severely emotionally disturbed is protected from being expelled for a full year, based on the fact that he is severely and emotionally disturbed and that resulted in the bringing of the gun to school?

Mr. ASHCROFT. Mr. President, I want to thank a number of Senators before I begin making my remarks because this amendment is the culmination of the work of a number of individuals, including Senators Hutchison, DeWine, Allard, Abraham of Michigan, Gregg of New Hampshire, Helms of North Carolina, and Senator Coverdell of Georgia. All of these individuals participated to assemble the components of this amendment, which is an amendment designed to promote safety in our schools and to prevent violence in our schools. So I thank all of those Senators. If any of them comes to the floor, I will happily yield to them for them to give particular emphasis to the items they brought to the table here. This amendment contains a number of provisions that give schools and communities additional ways to prevent youth violence. It would free local school districts to put Federal money to use where the Federal money will do the most good to prevent future violence. Under this amendment, schools will be able to choose where best to spend Federal resources under titles 4 and 6 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act. These are allowable uses which would include violence prevention training, school safety equipment such as metal detectors, or for school resource officers. The amendment clarifies that nothing in Federal law stands in the way of a local decision to introduce a dress code or school uniform policy. Without taking the time at this moment, a number of schools would like to be able to do this. In the places where they have been able to do it, they have found that it reduces violence and increases student productivity. It has been good. This would allow schools, if they are going to use their Federal resources, to use them, and one of the permissible ways would be to invest in establishing such a policy. The amendment contains a provision that provides certain liability protections for school personnel when they undertake reasonable actions to maintain order and discipline in safe educational circumstances or to promote an environment of safety for education. This is a very important provision. This one, sponsored by Senator Coverdell of Georgia, offers teachers limited civil liability against frivolous and arbitrary lawsuits. We don't really need for teachers, who need to be involved in disciplining students, to be thinking about the fact that they are going to be sued if they exercise the right kind of discipline. The limits are reasonable. They are against frivolous and arbitrary lawsuits--the kind of limit that we placed to help encourage volunteerism last year when we had the Volunteer Protection Act. That is the kind of thing we want to do to make sure that teachers can have better control and are free to take necessary steps to provide discipline in the classroom. Senator Helms' language makes certain that a school discipline record follows a student when a student transfers to another public or private school. The language allows schools to run background checks on any school employee who works with children. I think this is reasonable. We should know who the individuals are who are employed in our schools. Providing this kind of capacity and opportunity is a step in the right direction, a step forward. It is necessary for schools, especially given the mobility of students and families, to be able to know about the discipline record of a student who comes to the school. Learning too late can be a deadly matter, as I learned a few years ago in a tragic case in St. Louis, where a student transferred from one school to the next and the discipline record didn't follow. And before they learned of this student's propensity to stalk young women, he murdered another student, stalking a woman, a young woman, into the restroom of a high school. Senator DeWine has a provision that allows the coordination of adolescent mental health and substance abuse services. That is part of this amendment. The amendment includes language from Senator Abraham that allows schools to use Safe and Drug Free Schools funds for drug testing. Students who are the subject of serious discipline problems may well be better off if we have the capacity of asking them to undergo drug tests. We fund it and provide the availability or the freedom to use funds in that respect. I really want to thank my colleagues who worked with me on this task force: Senators DeWine, Hutchinson, Gregg, Allard, Coverdell, Helms, and Hatch. I look forward to the passage of these proposals that are included in this education task force package: The amendments on school safety and violence prevention, and safety and security in our schools. I reserve the remainder of my time.

Mr. ASHCROFT. Then the suspension--if you got past the 10 days, you could suspend the student for 45 days.

Mr. ASHCROFT. They can keep them out of a regular classroom.

Mr. ASHCROFT. They do have to do things.

Mr. ASHCROFT. And this amendment is designed to extend the quality of treatment that you appear to admire at the first of the process through the process adequately so that we protect the safety of the school environment for a much longer period of time.

Mr. ASHCROFT. Is it possible to modify this consent request to say the Frist-Ashcroft amendment would be the pending business at the conclusion of this vote, and no later at the onset of the business tomorrow morning?

Mr. ASHCROFT. When we take these steps, let's tell the whole story about each step.

Mr. ASHCROFT. That results in those kids showing up in school far earlier than they otherwise would. It may not work that way on the floor of the Senate, but that is the way it works in school.

Mr. ASHCROFT. The Senator from Missouri thanks the Chair.

Mr. ASHCROFT. Earlier the Senator said that it is hard to imagine a person would have brought a gun to school based on a disability. But in fact the determination from Davidson County, Nashville, TN, is that over the last couple of years they apparently found that a number of the individuals involved--two in 1 year and three from another year-- the determination was made in this process that bringing the gun was related to a disability and therefore the student was not to be treated the same as other students but would have a very tactical set of bureaucratic rights to remain in school, or reenter school. It seems to me that goes to the heart of what we are talking about-- whether or not a student who has a problem that causes the student to be involved in bringing a gun--that is, the manifestation proceedings. Part of the evidence or manifestation of the problem is that you come to school with a gun. That provides the authority for reentering school. The fact that you have a problem which causes you to bring guns to school becomes your license to get back into school. I think that describes the loophole we have talked about. We created it here in the Senate. Am I getting to the heart of it?

Mr. ASHCROFT. Mr. President, I want to bring the attention of the Senate to what I believe to be the law in this situation, that absent specification in the IDEA law itself, the extension of continuing services is not required according to, I think, the best on-point legal decisions in cases where a person would otherwise have forfeited his right to school because of the disciplinary problem. The case of Virginia Department of Education v. Riley, from the Fourth Circuit, found that the plain language of IDEA did not condition the receipt of IDEA funds on the continued provision of educational services to expelled children with disabilities and that in order for Congress to place conditions on the State's receipt of funds, Congress must do so clearly and unambiguously. Therefore, that is one of the reasons the law was changed following that.

Mr. ASHCROFT. If they don't let him back in, for that student, they have to set up some other school for him, and that could even be a school that is housed with a full-time teacher and all the kinds of assistance the student might need.

Mr. ASHCROFT. Reserving the right to object, and I don't intend to object, I want to indicate that this is about the fourth time we have displaced this amendment, which I have been working on in conjunction with Senator Frist. This amendment has been the pending business since last Friday. This is not a novel amendment. I just want to indicate that I intend to get a vote on this amendment. Votes have been taken on amendments on both sides. The right way to resolve any dispute on this amendment is to vote on it. I have been ready to vote on this amendment for quite some time. I think everyone on both sides of the aisle knows what the amendment is about. I would just indicate that when this amendment comes back up I will persist in expecting the same courtesy that this body has accorded all other amendments to be accorded to this amendment, and I will work hard to make sure we have an opportunity to vote on it.

Mr. ASHCROFT. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum.

Mr. ASHCROFT. On what basis does the court say they are entitled to an IEP?

Mr. ASHCROFT. How nice.