W. Akin

Mr. AKIN

Mr. AKIN. Reclaiming my time, my first point, when you read this, if you have hundreds of millions who already have health insurance, you're going to tamper with all of this to deal with 12 million?

Mr. AKIN. I appreciate your response as a medical professional on that, and the fact that it's going to be awfully hard if year after year we're putting more money into Medicare to try and prop it up. As Dr. Gingrey has said, that's no way to run a ship. And that's true. But we're constantly putting more money in it, and all of a sudden we're being told by the President that he is going to take $500 billion out of it because it's waste, fraud and abuse; he is going to put it into this program, and there is not going to be a nickel of deficit involved in that. Another claim that the President made--and I have been sticking a little bit on the theme of, there's a lot of debate over what's true. This guy says this, somebody else says that, and America is arguing about this stuff. What our objective is is to try to add some kernel of truth to one of these things. Here's another statement. First, if you're among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance through your job, Medicare, Medicaid or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage of the doctor you have. Now we've heard this over and over from the President. We've heard it from different Democrat Congressmen claiming this, and yet this isn't really true, from what we're seeing, as we take a good, closer look at it. The first thing that strikes me is, if you are among the hundreds of millions of Americans who already have health insurance--in other words, you have 100 million Americans who already have health insurance, and you like it, you like your doctor-patient relationship, and you are saying, Hey, just leave me alone, what's the objective? Well, the objective is to find some other number of people who don't have health insurance. So how many is that? We have an expert on that here in Congressman King. But let's just be very liberal. Let's say the President, who said originally it was 46 million, now he is going to take it down to 30 and probably if you looked at it closer, it's less than that. But let's say even if there were 30 that didn't have health insurance, and you have hundreds that have, why are you going to scrap the hundreds right off the bat in order to deal with the 30?

Mr. AKIN. Is this a conference call? You're going to have a conference call?

Mr. AKIN. How many years can you practice medicine--let's say our salaries were cut 20 percent every year. How long would we be doing what we're doing? I mean, that's a tough deal. So we're cutting this. We keep adding money to it to prevent that cut from taking place, and now we're going to take $500 billion out of Medicare and everything is going to work fine? Dr. Fleming, what do you think about that?

Mr. AKIN. Every year we're patching that, though, aren't we?

Mr. AKIN. Isn't that amazing? We have two medical doctors here, Dr. Fleming and Dr. Gingrey, and we have been really leaning on our medical doctors. I guess the question I have is, I have been here 9 years, and over this period we passed some bill, I don't know how many years ago, that says we are going to keep ratcheting down how much money we are spending on Medicare, and it obviously isn't working, if you take a look Medicare growth and costs. And every year we do the Medicare patch so the doctors aren't going to go bankrupt all the time, or at least so they will keep taking Medicare patients. So it seems to me when we do the patch, we are putting more money into Medicare, and now we are talking about taking $500 billion out of it. This thing somehow, Dr. Gingrey, do you want to address that for a minute, or Congresswoman Foxx?

Mr. AKIN. I think that is a great phrase, ``a stunning departure from rational thinking.'' You know, I think we are seeing a little more of that than we need down here. You are such a nice person. That is a nice way to say being stupid, isn't it? In Missouri, we are not very good at explaining things. I wish I was as politically correct as you are. I see my good friend, Congressman King from Iowa, over here, and he is having way too much fun. I think we have to let Steve have a chance at chatting with us for a minute. Congressman King, somebody who is known for calling things plain and straight talk, I appreciate your midwestern perspective. Please join us.

Mr. AKIN. So we are going to cut $500 billion out of Medicare and expect doctors to continue to do that? I don't understand how that is supposed to work.

Mr. AKIN. Thirty-seven cents out of a dollar. So they are losing money on a Medicare patient.

Mr. AKIN. How much?

Mr. AKIN. $1?

Mr. AKIN. Let me stop. That is an incredible number. In other words, we have a doctor like Dr. Gingrey, Dr. Fleming, and they accept a patient on Medicare. It costs them $1 to provide some type of medical care. They are getting reimbursed how much? $1.50?

Mr. AKIN. Let's talk a little bit. What part of Medicare did that come out of? Did you happen to notice that? I mean, is there any line item that says waste, fraud and abuse in Medicare that you can just take money out of? How do we do that?

Mr. AKIN. I really appreciate, doctor, your offering this amendment, because I think this, if there is ever any indication of where this health care is going and why the American public is concerned about it, this would be one of those things. Because we are talking about promises on the one hand that you can keep what you have and your doctor-patient relationship is good and don't worry about that; 100 million people in America have their own insurance and their own doctors and providers and they feel like they are getting pretty good health care. And yet here, this amendment says that. We are joined by a fantastic Congresswoman, Congresswoman Lummis. I would be happy if you want to jump in here.

Mr. AKIN. Okay. But when it failed, what does that say to us if you are worried about bureaucrats making health care decisions? Does that give you any sense of comfort?

Mr. AKIN. So your amendment failed then?

Mr. AKIN. What I have got here in my notes, it says the Democrats, 32 voted against it, one voted for it. Republicans, 23 voted for it, none of them voted against it. So it is a straight party-line vote, with the exception of one?

Mr. AKIN. I agree. It is a sacred relationship. How did the committee vote?

Mr. AKIN. And how did it go? Tell me about the votes. Your amendment passed without any question, right? Everybody agrees to that doctor- patient relationship, right? There wasn't anybody that voted against your amendment?

Mr. AKIN. So isn't that your point? You don't want bureaucrats getting in the way of medical decisions. Is that what you are trying to get at here?

Mr. AKIN. Was that that fantastic colored flowchart that we saw that had all the boxes and arrows all over?

Mr. AKIN. You know, there is kind of an overused phrase around here, ``people of faith.'' I mean, I think we are talking of people of faith that could make statements like that with a straight face almost. I would like to just shift a little bit to my good friend from Georgia, and he in a way to me is a hero because he has done something which I think is a tremendous educational tool for the people of the United States. On this House floor we are denied many, many times any kind of amendment that we can offer because it might be embarrassing to have to vote on something. But in committee, we still have the freedom to be able to offer amendments. And a third point of some considerable contention on health care is the question of rationing. Is it going to end up that the government is going to, instead of an insurance agent getting between you and your doctor, which we don't like, even worse a bureaucrat telling the doctor and the patient, Sorry, you can't go there. Give him some aspirin and send him home. That is something that has been a concern. So my good friend the doctor from Georgia offered an amendment in committee on this very point, and I don't think this has received nearly enough attention, Dr. Gingrey. But I want to review the simple sentence that you put in, because I think this really busts wide open this entire question about whether we are going to have rationing of health care. ``Nothing in this section shall be construed to allow any Federal employee or political appointee,'' that is, a bureaucrat, ``to dictate how a medical provider practices medicine.'' My understanding of what you are saying, doctor, is that that doctor- patient relationship, which we all consider to be the backbone of good medical care, is sacrosanct, and we are not going to put bureaucrats in charge of doctor-patient and medical decisionmaking. Was that your point? And tell me about your amendment.

Mr. AKIN. 30,000 or 40,000--that is jobs lost?

Mr. AKIN. In other words, the Federal Government is going to go in and take over all of these student loans, and it is not going to cost a dime. You know what you would have to prove to prove that true? You would have to say that every single loan is going to be made good. That is what you would have to say almost to make that happen. I mean, that is beyond credible.

Mr. AKIN. Wait a minute. Reclaiming my time, you are starting to blow my circuits. You are saying that a Congressman on this floor, the head of the Education Committee now, says that this government loan program is not going to cost us a dime?