Doug Bereuter

Mr. BEREUTER

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, I am proud to mention that my colleague from New York has emphasized this point, the importance of buying American equipment, because it is interoperable in NATO forces and because it is important to our economy. So taking nothing away from Romania's case, because military-to- military cooperation with Romania and the United States could not be better, and certainly no country has pressed harder for first-round membership than Romania, I did want to make sure that by our action today we say nothing negative about Slovenia's case, and I thank the gentleman for his initiative.

Mr. BEREUTER. I yield to the gentleman from New York.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, notwithstanding the fact that I do not oppose, I would say to the gentleman, the gentleman from New York and I, along with nine of our colleagues, recently led a delegation before we went to the North Atlantic Assembly, to Slovenia, and all of us came back I think very much impressed with the tremendous progress they have made in democratization and in their economic reforms and in their ability to pay for modernization to meet the NATO requirements. We felt, in fact, they were well-qualified to be taken in as a member of NATO in the first round, and we made that recommendation to the Secretary of State, and I know I personally made it to the Secretary of Defense, and I think some of my colleagues have as well. This matter of Romania is certainly not one that I oppose. I thank the gentleman for his initiative. I just want to make sure that nothing being said here suggests that we have any less respect or support for Slovenia as a first-round entry.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent, notwithstanding my failure to oppose, that I may claim the 5 minutes in opposition.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for his statement. I urge support for this amendment. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentleman from California [Mr. Rohrabacher].

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I would ask the gentleman from Vermont if he has any more speakers?

Mr. BEREUTER. I yield to the gentleman from Florida.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to take 5 minutes, even though I am not in opposition to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Vermont [Mr. Sanders].

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I want to commend the gentleman from Vermont on his amendment. I have spoken on this issue myself. There is no reason for this gentleman to be detained in any fashion that I can see, and I want to express my appreciation to the gentleman from Vermont [Mr. Sanders] for his initiative, and I urge my colleagues to support it unanimously.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, if the gentlewoman will yield further, I would say the gentlewoman has a very generous soul, which is one of the reasons I admire her greatly. Her putting the best characterization of the best construction on Mr. Horta's comments about my views are very generous on her part. In this case that generosity is mistaken. There is no doubt that he intentionally mischaracterized the position of this Member, but I thank the gentlewoman and say that her sentiments are a credit to her.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman for yielding. I think the gentlewoman knows that current law forbids the kind of military sales to Indonesia that can be used in repressive measures against the civilian population. This amendment does not put that in place. That is a matter of law already. I would say to the gentlewoman, I hope that she would be concerned when Mr. Horta comes into my office and after he leaves with a very clear understanding of what my point of view is, and which it happens to be the view of the official view of the U.S. Government, which I am supporting as the chairman of the Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, for him to go out and lie in writing about it to my chairman and mischaracterize 180 degrees is highly inappropriate. I would hope the gentlewoman would not condone that kind of activity and would be sympathetic as one Member of Congress to another on this matter. I would hope she agrees that Mr. Horta should not be using those tactics. It is unworthy of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment to the amendment.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to comment on two points the gentleman has raised. First, I would ask this question, it is rhetorical, but if the gentleman has a response to it I think the world would like to know it. What does the gentleman expect the Indonesian Government would do when up to 41, or perhaps more, people were killed by guerrillas when in fact some of them were poll watchers, and others were civilians. What does the gentleman think the response should legitimately be in that situation? Do they try to protect people and bring people to justice or not? The second point I would raise about the allegations that the guerrillas may be or are totally on the payroll of the Indonesian Government, and I refer to those guerrillas that caused the deaths and the tragedy that took place there. I hope the gentleman does not believe that that is the case in all instances, if any. It certainly is not the view of our Government, our State Department, our intelligence agencies and those people that have spoken out on this issue. I just want to raise those two points if the gentleman cares to address them. I certainly do not believe that everybody, if anybody, if any, who killed those people at the polls is on the Indonesian Government payroll.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I do rise in objection to the Kennedy amendment because it is unbalanced in its characteristics, and it is biased by referring only to one side of the violence that has occurred and continues to occur in Indonesia. And in contrast to what the gentleman from Rhode Island has indicated, I feel that the recently announced self-denial of E-IMET by Indonesia and their expression of no interest in purchasing American- made F-16's is not a major victory for the United States, as the gentleman intends, it is an unfortunate blow to our relationship. The E-IMET program, or Extended IMET, is designed specifically to encourage better human rights practices and proper civil action, methods of operating and living in a civil society, for military and civilian personnel that take advantage of this training program in the United States. The F-16 sale, of course, was not something that Indonesia itself sought, but the Clinton administration, trying to find some way to dispose of F-16's that it sold to Pakistan but which could not be delivered because of the Pressler amendment, was looking for other purchasers. They found Indonesia as a possible sales prospect. So it is understandable that Indonesia now, faced with continued opposition and criticism in this Congress, some of it entirely justified, admittedly, but an unbalanced kind of objection and a denial even of something that is in our national interest, the E-IMET program, naturally does not want that fight. The E-IMET program is not that important to them, but it certainly is a loss to us in maintaining good relations with Indonesia and to our effort to improve human rights procedures in Indonesia. Let us take a look at some of the reasons why Indonesian-American relations are important to this country. First of all, surprising to most people in this country, Indonesia is now the fourth most populous country on Earth. There have been harsh, one-sided amendments offered in this Congress and the committee and on the floor in the past which have reduced our credibility with the Indonesian Government and the military. Why? Because the amendments, this one in particular, will be seen in Indonesia as Indonesian bashing if it is not such criticism offered in some kind of equitable and valid manner. That is to say, if it is not balanced, or if we do not remove the one-sided bias to it. Indonesia is not Burma or Iraq. It is an important country, a key member of ASEAN, APEC, the ARF, the OIC, and the United Nations. Indonesia has played a very important role in the settlement in Cambodia and peace between the Philippines and the Moros Liberation Front. Indonesia has contributed to efforts to resolve the dispute over the Spratly Islands and has contributed to the Korean Energy Development Organization. Indonesia supported the gulf war efforts against Iraq. Indonesia's sealanes and air routes are important to United States forces. We, of course, have major economic interest in Indonesia. Our annual bilateral trade is about $12.3 billion. But these are not reasons enough to justify or to be silent about abuses that exist there. I want to try to make this amendment of the gentleman from Rhode Island [Mr. Kennedy] a balanced amendment. Mr. Chairman, therefore, I will offer an amendment to the Kennedy amendment. Amendment Offered by Mr. Bereuter to the Amendment Offered by Mr. Kennedy of Rhode Island

Mr. BEREUTER

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, reserving the right to object, under the reservation I would ask our chairman, the gentleman from New York (Mr. Gilman], if he would describe what the Pallone amendment on Indian- American relations is about.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I notice that the gentleman mentioned Omaha, Nebraska, and I just wanted to tell him there is no ground swell of support for the United Nations being located in Omaha, but I thank the gentleman.

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Chairman, I do thank the gentleman under my reservation for yielding me this information. I want to commend the gentleman from New Jersey for his initiative. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my reservation of objection.

Mr. BEREUTER. I yield to the gentleman from Minnesota.

Mr. BEREUTER. I yield to the gentleman from New York.