John Chafee

Mr. CHAFEE

Mr. CHAFEE. I do not think Justice Scalia is looked upon as a dangerous liberal on that Court.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for the quorum call be rescinded.

Mr. CHAFEE. I was interested in that Supreme Court case the Senator quoted. Was that Judge Scalia who joined in that opinion?

Mr. CHAFEE. My query is this, to the distinguished sponsor of the amendment. It seems to me that, as I understand it, Indians make up 1.5 percent of the AFDC caseload. There are different figures given here, but I heard no figure more than 2 percent. Therefore, it is hard to understand why 3 percent should be set aside for this group that makes up 1.5 or 2 percent--whatever it is--of the caseload. I would appreciate if the distinguished Senator could give us some help on that.

Mr. CHAFEE. So, therefore, if the whole goal of this bill, often reiterated, is greater flexibility to the States, that this is what the Senator's amendment does. And if the State does not choose to require a nonprofit corporation, then that is the State's business.

Mr. CHAFEE. I could well see the situation where in our State, for example, the attorney general might advise the Governor, ``Don't get into these kind of contracts.'' As it exists now, you have no option but to deal with the church because the bill, as I understand it is written, forbids these nonprofit corporations from being set up.

Mr. CHAFEE. Just one more question of the Senator. It seems to me what the Senator is proposing is giving the States flexibility; the State does not have to require it but could.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the Boxer amendment be temporarily laid aside so that I might proceed with a modification to the underlying Dole amendment.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, it provides that there shall be a maintenance of effort at the 80 percent level, with the tight definitions that we have previously been discussing. Furthermore, it provides that should there be the effort below 80 percent, then the reduction will be a dollar-for-dollar reduction between the State funds and Federal funds. Mr. President, this is an amendment that we have discussed, I believe broadly, that has been cleared by both sides. Senator Dole is a supporter of this amendment on this side. Mr. President, I am glad that the amendment is acceptable. I want to thank everybody for this. I especially thank the senior Senator from New Mexico, Senator Domenici, for his outstanding work. He was key in the whole effort. Indeed, it was he who suggested to the majority leader that we have the 80 percent maintenance of effort. This gets us through a difficult spot. We have been tied up on the 90-percent, 75-percent maintenance of effort. This is a compromise that has been worked out. I know the distinguished Senator from Louisiana has been very, very active in this area, and I am happy to hear any comments he might have.

Mr. CHAFEE. We do not address that, nor did the Breaux amendment address it. The question really is, should the Federal Government not make its appropriation, for the 1994 level, in the year 1998, or, as you said, 2000--we do not address that here. But I cannot believe that, with 100 Senators, all representing States here, that they are going to permit their State in some way to be punished, or lack funds, or have to continue their effort at 80 percent when the Federal Government does not do its matching share. But we do not specifically address that problem. We address the sanction problem.

Mr. CHAFEE. I am not sure I understand.

Mr. CHAFEE. The Senator's point is a good one. If we are trying to encourage the churches to come into this, use their facilities which they have available for day care and other forms of assistance, I think the Senator's amendment makes a lot of sense.

Mr. CHAFEE. If the Senator can hold for a moment. I know if the State goes down in its contribution, as I previously mentioned, then the Federal goes down dollar for dollar if the State should go below the 80 percent. If your question is, what happens if the Federal goes down, under a sanction, for example--if I might get the answer to that. If they are sanctioned, the answer is, I am informed, if they are sanctioned, the State still has to do its 80 percent. In other words, you cannot be so-called punished and be relieved of a burden at the same time, which is my understanding of the existing law today.

Mr. CHAFEE. I want to assure the Senator, because I was disturbed by that provision likewise, that there cannot be that kind--a contribution to Medicaid does not count. It has to be basically the AFDC existing categories. It cannot be something for food stamps or Medicaid or an automobile or something like that.

Mr. CHAFEE. It is my understanding this gets a little bit arcane, and I am not trying to avoid the Senator's question in any fashion. We can safely say, basically the same as the amendment of the Senator from Louisiana. That is, the Senator is talking about--it is the title I block grants which fits into the definitions.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, I send a modification of Senator Dole's amendment to the desk.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, I thank everybody for their help in this, and particularly I want to thank the majority leader, the distinguished ranking member of the Finance Committee, and others who have been very, very helpful on this. And of course the Senator from Louisiana. The Senator from Florida had some excellent questions. Mr. SANTORUM addressed the Chair.

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, the mere presence of the Senator from New York at the conference is a big plus to our side. Again, I want to thank him for his support of this amendment and thank the distinguished Senator from Louisiana for everything he has done, including previous to today as I mentioned before. Mr. President, the amendment has been adopted. I want to thank all.

Mr. CHAFEE. Obviously, I hope that it would be the 75-percent level, but I see the distinguished ranking member of the committee, and we have all been through conference many times and all we can say is we will do our best.

Mr. CHAFEE. Under the proposal of the distinguished Senator from Maine, if in our State we were nervous about the constitutionality of dealing with the church directly without this religious corporation, then under the Senator's amendment, the State could ensure itself it was on safe ground by requiring that there be such a corporation, and then when the State dealt with it, they would know that they were absolutely safe from lawsuits and all the problems that possibly could arise.

Mr. CHAFEE. I wonder if the Senator will yield for a question.

Mr. CHAFEE. That is right.

Mr. CHAFEE

Mr. CHAFEE. If there is no further business to come before the Senate, I [[Page S 13308]] ask unanimous consent that the Senate stand in recess under the previous order following the remarks of Senator Feinstein and Senator Pressler.

Mr. CHAFEE

Mr. CHAFEE. I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.

Mr. CHAFEE

Mr. CHAFEE. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent there now be a period for the transaction of morning business with Senators permitted to speak up to 15 minutes.