Tom Harkin

Mr. HARKIN

Mr. HARKIN. Thank you.

Mr. HARKIN. OK. Now, my friend and I agree that the principal can get the kid out immediately. Let's take the second step: timeframe. For a disabled kid, it can be up to 45 days. They don't have to do anything. They can keep him out for 45 days. They don't have to show anything. They can keep him out for 45 days.

Mr. HARKIN. Provide services in education.

Mr. HARKIN. That is true.

Mr. HARKIN. For the disabled child, they do have to continue to provide services.

Mr. HARKIN. It would be in an alternative setting to be determined among the parents, the hearing officer and the school.

Mr. HARKIN. I agree with you.

Mr. HARKIN. I think then while we agree that the principal can get the kid out right away and can get him out for 45 days, our disagreement, it seems to me, is not so much on getting the kid out of the school immediately and getting the immediate danger out; it seems to me our disagreement is what happens later, what happens with those kids later on, how are they treated and how, if at all, they are let back in the school. That seems to be our disagreement.

Mr. HARKIN. Again, I think we can work through this. I hope. We may not always agree. I am trying to get down to the nub of the problem.

Mr. HARKIN. And it seems to me that we do agree. I understood----

Mr. HARKIN. Will the Senator yield further?

Mr. HARKIN. The point I am trying to make is that in the initial statement of my friend from Tennessee, the Senator talked about the Littleton school shooting and kids bringing guns to school and getting these dangerous kids out of school. I agree. I just wanted to make the point very clearly that in terms of a child bringing a gun to school, a principal right now can deal with a kid who is disabled just as they can with a kid who is not disabled, in terms of getting that kid out of school, having the police haul them away, have them book him, have them charge him with a crime or anything else. I just wanted to make that point very clear, that they can get those kids out of that school. Now we are going to get into the next stage about what happens with those kids. That is the only point I want to make. I thank the Senator.

Mr. HARKIN. Will the Senator yield briefly?

Mr. HARKIN. I wanted to say that the Senator was right and I misspoke myself. That Court across the street said the law was clear, that they had to do it. It was not the Constitution.

Mr. HARKIN. Is the Senator talking about subsection (a)(2) on page 3?

Mr. HARKIN. I read that. It says, ``Nothing in clause (I)(1) shall be construed to prevent a child with a disability who is disciplined pursuant to the authority provided under clause 1''--that is, expulsion--``from asserting a defense that the carrying or possession of the gun or firearm was unintentional or innocent.'' I ask the Senator, to whom does that child assert the defense?

Mr. HARKIN. Yes.

Mr. HARKIN. We have already been through that. I don't know if we need to go over it again. We have already decided that if a kid brings a gun to school, the principal can take that kid out of that school immediately, can call the police and have the police come and haul them away. Does the Senator disagree with that?

Mr. HARKIN. The Senator says a kid can assert a defense that the carrying or possession was unintentional. I ask, to whom? It doesn't spell it out here. They can assert a defense. But assert it to whom? The principal?

Mr. HARKIN. He can assert that defense.

Mr. HARKIN. That it was unintentional. And what kind of process is set up which would ensure that there would be a fair and impartial hearing on that?

Mr. HARKIN. If I might remind the Senator that he started off talking about the Littleton incident. I am going to get into this, because I think it is important. I ask the Senator--I will start with a statement. I hope it is not disputable that in the last 39 months there have been eight school shootings in which kids have died. How many of those shootings involved a kid with disabilities? I ask the Senator.

Mr. HARKIN. I will say it and open it up to any repudiation. There have been eight school shootings in 39 months. Not one of those involved a kid with a disability--not one. Yet we have an amendment going after kids with disabilities. Yet not one involved a kid with a disability. In fact, I will point out that four of the kids killed at Littleton were kids with disabilities.

Mr. HARKIN. Of course, I yield.

Mr. HARKIN. No. That is why we changed IDEA 2 years ago, I say to my friend, to provide that whoever brings a gun or weapon to school can be immediately removed by the police and taken down to the police station. That is why we did that.