Fritz Hollings

Mr. HOLLINGS

Mr. HOLLINGS. I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.

Mr. HOLLINGS. The Senator and I agree that we are using Social Security and not saving Social Security. That is what the whole debate is about.

Mr. HOLLINGS. If you use Social Security.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Unified.

Mr. HOLLINGS. What fund here is in surplus?

Mr. HOLLINGS. Madam President, 2004-2008, you use the year 2004, $154 billion of Social Security moneys to make it a slush fund; 2005, $166 billion; 2006, $173 billion; 2007, $181 billion; 2008, $187 billion. That is how you use the word ``surplus.''

Mr. HOLLINGS. I yield 10 minutes.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I yield to the Senator from New Jersey.

Mr. HOLLINGS. And that we have no points of order? If somebody wants to raise one--and it is agreed we waive any points of order.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, briefly I want to yield to the distinguished Senator from New Jersey. I ask unanimous consent I add to our particular amendment Senator Reid, Senator Ford, and Senator Johnson.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I ask for the yeas and nays on both amendments.

Mr. HOLLINGS. The Senator from North Dakota is correct. Denny McLain, who was an all-star pitcher for the Detroit Tigers, got sentenced to 8 years for using the pension fund to pay off the company debt, in violation of our law, the Pension Reform Act of 1994. Yet, we do it here in violation of our own law and policy of 1994 for corporate America. Fine and dandy. I would tell him to, next time, run for the Senate, and instead of a jail term he will get the good government award.

Mr. HOLLINGS. No objection.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion to lay on the table was agreed to.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, with respect to the amendments pending, I know the Senator from Iowa, Senator Harkin, the Senator from Oregon, Senator Wyden--I think that one can be worked out or I think it perhaps may have already been worked out--Senator Leahy from Vermont, Senator Dorgan from North Dakota, and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts have amendments, if they are within the view and sound of the action on the floor, please be alerted. We want to bring up those amendments. I am asking the staff to contact them. Mr. President, with respect to this particular study, there is an action required here, as I read it. In other words, it is not just a study, but a report. The purpose is to require a report from the Federal Communications Commission, but the report really is a resolution requiring action, because the very last paragraph, Mr. President, reads as follows: (3) If the Commission determines under paragraph (1) that the findings under subsection (a) are not consistent with the fulfillment of the responsibilities referred to in that paragraph, the report shall include a statement of the actions to be undertaken by the Commission to fulfill the responsibilities. I think that is just a little too mandatory; an unfunded mandate, I think we call that here in the U.S. Senate. I yield the floor. Mr. FEINGOLD addressed the Chair.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I appreciate that. I am sort of ready to go along with what the Senator from Tennessee said. Let me look at those Executive orders.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I will be delighted to yield.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, I am still nonplused as to the particular content of those Executive orders. I say nonplused. I know the President, and if there is one group he really yields to, it is local and State governments, having been a Governor, having come to office as a new, whatever they call this thing--leadership, Democrat, or whatever else. He hadn't been necessarily on the side of the Federal Government but on the side of State and local governments. I understand the misgivings of the Senator from Tennessee, and I understand what he said, that the Governors have asked and yet, apparently, the White House has declined. That is why I am nonplused, because I would like to know a little bit more about it, and I am checking right now those Executive orders and with members of our Governmental Affairs Committee, which does have jurisdiction on this particular matter. In short, in other words, Executive Order 12612 and Executive Order 12875, the Senator from Tennessee says they change a basic presumption from federalism--local and State levels to be employed and approached, before we take over at the Federal level--with which I agree. I happen to think that the President agrees, too. That is why I want a little time to check this out.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent a legislative fellow in the office of Senator Wyden of Oregon, Martin Kodis, be permitted the privilege of the floor during consideration of this bill.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I yield back the remainder of our time.

Mr. HOLLINGS. Madam President, assuming the Senator was correct, the reason you don't walk away, if you can possibly ever quit using Social Security as a slush fund, is the almost $1 trillion--that is why I put this chart in--from Medicare. We are still using Medicare. There is a surplus in Medicare right now. We have debated that. But we are using that to balance the budget. Military retirement, civilian retirement, unemployment, highway, airport moneys, railroad retirement, the other funds there, Federal Financing Bank and others--it is $1 trillion worth of other moneys. If we could ever stop using those, which are deficits, and make them balance, just in the black instead of in the red, then I would go along with all the tax cuts. I want to go along with the tax cuts anyway. I voted to save the tax increase on guns just yesterday. I voted to cut the other so-called penalty, marriage penalty, on another item. I don't mind cutting taxes. But, overall, let's not act like we have money to spend when we are going broke, and that causes the debt to increase, which causes the interest costs to increase, which causes the waste to increase. They act like, ``We can play the game and we will get to it later.'' That is what is really hurting us, the $1-billion-a-day interest costs on the national debt for absolutely nothing. I reserve the remainder of our time.

Mr. HOLLINGS. That is by using, of course, all these Social Security moneys.

Mr. HOLLINGS. What fund shows a surplus? Because the Federal debt goes up each year. So you show me--that is what I am saying: Name the surplus. I agree she used the word ``surplus.''

Mr. HOLLINGS. That is exactly right, because that is not a surplus. They are using trust funds. That is exactly my point. That is what the whole debate is about: Save Social Security.

Mr. HOLLINGS. I think we can bring this right into focus for everyone. The Senator was reading from page 10 about surplus, and I have already been critical, of course, of the Director of the Congressional Budget Office, because that is using surplus funds, that is using trust funds and moving them. The question would be--just turn the page--on page 11 you have the Federal debt, 2002, $5.927 trillion, and then why, if you have surpluses those years that you are talking about, and return those surpluses to the taxpayers--why is it, in 2003 it increases, in 2004, in 2005, in 2006, in 2007, 2008--why does the debt go up, if you have surpluses?