Ted Kennedy

Mr. KENNEDY

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, we have remaining time on the amendments we have dealt with previously. I believe we have 15 minutes. I am glad to yield it to the Senator from Oregon. He wants to talk on another subject.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the order for the quorum call be rescinded.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, we have made very good progress during the morning and early afternoon on the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act. We have a pretty good idea now of the remaining amendments. We are getting in touch with our colleagues who intend to offer those amendments. I expect we will have votes, as the leader indicated, in the early evening, and this probably will necessitate that we will have a few votes in the morning tomorrow. But we will wind up this higher education reauthorization bill, which is really the good news. Mr. President, how much time remains?

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I ask the Chair to advise when I have 1 minute left. Finally, Mr. President, I want to review again exactly where we are on the two pieces of legislation, one of which we passed on Thursday night, which is the historic increase in the need-based grant aid, the largest increase in grant aid since the GI bill after World War II. We have also assisted in the management of these loans, the indebtedness, by offering loan forgiveness and by putting a limit on loan payments at 15 percent of the discretionary income. Discretionary income also takes into consideration if there are children and, obviously, that reduces the discretionary income. We have the loan forgiveness for borrowers who work in the public service jobs. If you become a teacher and work with special needs children, or work with the disabled or the elderly, and you do that over a 10-year period, you will not pay more than 15 percent and qualify for the loan forgiveness. The bill also protects working students, so that if they work hard and gain some money to be able to buy some books, that they are not going to break through these caps, need-based caps, and they are going to be able to buy the books and use those earnings. This is a realistic and important aspect of the legislation. So this is assistance to the neediest students, assistance for those students from working families with middle income, and assistance for idealistic students who want to work in public service. All of that is going to be possible under this legislation. Under the reauthorization, the other part which we are now on the floor of the Senate debating, we are also making sure that the student loan system is going to meet the ethical requirements and is going to ensure that the best interest of the students and the loan system is going to be protected. We have had too many stories of inappropriate kinds of actions in the development of the loan system, which makes it more difficult for the students and, obviously, compromises the colleges and universities. So we have addressed that issue in this part of the program. We are publicizing the cost information so that parents will understand and get real information as to what the cost is for the schools. We are going to also publicize what the States are providing. If they cut back, as they have in my own State, which has meant the fees have gone up, parents will know who is responsible. We hope this will make a difference in terms of the total cost of education. The application itself, what they call the FAFSA, we have simplified that so it will no longer be a discouraging document. It will be one that will be easier to read and be easier to utilize, particularly for those students who don't have the kind of support systems that help them fill out those forms. Finally, we have helped in the areas of the GEAR UP and TRIO programs to help improve preparation for higher education. For one reason or another, some students need a helping hand to continue their education and succeed in school. That has been true for the TRIO and GEAR UP programs and other programs that work with children who come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds but are talented and hard working students. This helps provide an outreach for those students. Lastly, we have the programs to support higher quality teacher preparation. We understand at the end of the day the teacher in the classroom is the one who makes all the difference. Each and every one of us in this Chamber can all remember our favorite teachers, the one who inspired us, helped us, coached us, and really encouraged us to move ahead and grasp the opportunities of furthering our education. Mr. President, this is a very meaningful piece of legislation. It represents the best judgment of Republicans and Democrats alike. We are enormously indebted to our Republican and Democratic colleagues and all of the staffs who have worked very long and hard on this legislation. We are going to have more to say on these particular amendments, but I think it is useful to just give a summary of what this legislation is all about. We have added to this legislation over the course of the day in some very useful and meaningful ways. So we are going to look forward to getting a good vote on the final passage. Mr. President, I believe my time is up.

Mr. KENNEDY. Would the Senator yield?

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, how much time do we have?

Mr. KENNEDY. There is 15 minutes divided between Senator Enzi and myself?

Mr. KENNEDY. I would be glad to, if the Senator would yield on my time. Is it not true that there is sort of three major components of paying for the cost for higher education? We have one aspect of it, which is the student loan program, which is the Federal student loan program. Included in that program is the authorization program, that we are going to deal with this issue. Then we have the private loan programs which the Senator from Ohio is addressing. So as we are on the floor of the Senate, and middle-income families are watching us, we say we want to do something about the cost of tuition, certainly we make a downpayment on that in the reconciliation bill, where we have taken some $17 billion out of the lenders in order to provide more Federal grant aid to needy students. We have helped the neediest students. But the Senator from Ohio has put his finger on what is happening at the other end; that is, the dramatic increase in the students borrowing at these exorbitant rates of 18 percent. Does the Senator share my belief that we will never get a handle on the cost of tuition for colleges and universities until we get a handle on that program as well?

Mr. KENNEDY. Let me ask the Senator from Ohio, if you look at the left part of that chart, that is 1996; is that correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. So what you are pointing out is what has happened in the last 6 years; am I not correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. Well, the point I am making is this is a relatively new phenomenon that has taken place, correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. As we try to get a handle on trying to provide need- based assistance, we've seen a cutback in the proportion of grants compared to loans in Federal aid. We've seen the huge increase in Federal student loan debt--more and more students must borrow to afford a college education. At the same time we are seeing the explosion of private student loans, which often carry interest rates as high as 18 percent, which the Senator has talked about. Does the Senator not agree with me, if we are really serious about dealing with the cost of tuition for students, we ought to deal with all of those components? As I understand, the Senator from Ohio is doing that with his amendment, to make sure we are going to, as a result of his amendment, help the neediest students in terms of Pell grants, and we are going to get help managing student loan debt by offering loan forgiveness to those in public service and by capping monthly loan repayments. We are using some $17 billion that we take from the lenders, and we are going to make sure that students will get the best possible loan--even if it's a private loan.

Mr. KENNEDY. This is providing competition; am I correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. So this isn't just mandating. This is creating competition, if they want competition in this area; am I correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, just for the benefit of Members, I think we will have a rollcall vote on the Senator's amendment. We will work out with the leadership the time for that vote. I think that is going to be the way we are going to proceed. I see the Senator from Illinois on the Senate floor now who has an amendment and, hopefully, we will be able to address that at the present time.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, I am wondering if the Senator would help clarify his amendment for me. How much time do I have?

Mr. KENNEDY. Let me know after I have used 7 minutes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Would the Senator be good enough to answer some questions?

Mr. KENNEDY. I was reading through the amendment. As the Senator knows, we have at the present time on the bill the Byrd amendment, title 31 of the U.S. Code, which forbids what I imagine is much of this amendment. Under the law, recipients of Federal contracts--whether through grants, loans, or cooperative agreements--are barred from using those funds to lobby, to extend, or modify a Federal award. I am trying to understand what you include that his amendment doesn't include. Let me ask the question: if the President of a university or a government affairs person of the university called a Member of Congress about the student loan program, is that considered to be part of a lobbying effort? This is on my time.

Mr. KENNEDY. I was interested, if there is a government affairs person at one of our fine universities--for example, Tufts University in Massachusetts, which was in touch with us about loan forgiveness. In government affairs, they have an interesting program where they had a good deal of loan forgiveness for students, and they were calling asking about how their program fits in with this bill. It was a government affairs figure who called us about this, signaling that they thought their program was better than the one we had. Is that considered lobbying by the government affairs person?

Mr. KENNEDY. If there were inquiries on No Child Left Behind, on the special needs of disabled children, or they wanted to find out about bilingual programs and about grants from the NIH--there is this concern, as the Senator knows, about cuts in the NIH budget, and I have had calls from some of the great research centers in my home State, from universities and in some instances from presidents and in some instances from government affairs people, about their concern about where we are going as a country in terms of NIH and in terms of the future. Does it affect any of those?

Mr. KENNEDY. Even though the universities may be affected by some of these cuts. Is it just that the lobbyists--the hiring of the lobbyists and the lobbyists then speaking to the Member--I am trying to get what the Senator is driving at.

Mr. KENNEDY. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Just to continue, Mr. President, there are penalties with the Byrd amendment, civil penalties on the Byrd amendment. Maybe it is enforcement. The Byrd amendment says: None of the funds appropriated by any Act may be expended by the recipient of a Federal contract, grant, loan, or cooperative agreement to pay any person for influencing or attempting to influence an officer or employee of any agency, a Member of Congress, an officer or employee of any agency, a Member of Congress, or an employee of a Member of Congress in connection with any Federal action described in paragraph (2) of this subsection. Then it goes on: (2) The prohibition in paragraph (1) of this subsection applies with respect to the following Federal Actions: (A) The awarding of Federal contract. (B) The making of any Federal grant. (C) The making of any Federal loan. (D) The entering into of a cooperative agreement. (E) The extension, continuation, renewal, amendment, or modification of a Federal contract, grant, loan, or cooperative agreement. If the Senator says this is pretty good language but not enforceable and he has ideas about how we can try to enforce it, I am certainly open to it and would welcome it. I don't have a problem. My concern was looking at the Senator's amendment and seeing that language talking about ``to pay any person or entity for influencing or attempting to influence an officer or employee of an agency of the Federal Government, a Member of Congress. . . .'' My office has frequent phone calls from universities and colleges, certainly as the chairman of the HELP Committee, particularly as we are dealing with this education issue--from scores of universities and colleges. They express strong views about different aspects of this. We have heard a great deal from the lending institutions--Sallie Mae and the others-- that have a direct financial interest in this. I think it is valuable to have clarity in this area so we know what is permitted and what is not permitted. These were some of the areas of concern that I had, and the Senator has been helpful.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, the Senator is quite correct. The Byrd rule applies to reconciliation. The Byrd amendment applies to this. Let me just say that I listened and there is much to what the Senator says. There are also some concerns. In 1980, we had, for example, a very good program to help colleges, large colleges and small, to develop research centers at the colleges and universities. What we had seen in our committee at that time was the deterioration of laboratories and research centers. We passed a very good bill. We had close to in excess of a billion dollars that was going out for peer review. That program was effectively eliminated. The budget cutters eliminated it. They eliminated the program but not the need. I haven't been very successful. I have done my best to try to help outstanding colleges and universities that are in need in terms of research, that are doing some of the breakthrough research, that are making progress in health and other areas, that are trying to get assistance. I am proud of that fact. I share the view that in a perfect world, we have peer-reviewed science. There is a lot to what he says. In other areas, we do the best we can with the circumstances we have. I will take a look at what we have in terms of whether an amendment or clarification would be the best way to proceed. I suggest the absence of a quorum.