Jim Kolbe

Mr. KOLBE

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee do now rise.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that debate on this amendment and any amendments thereto be limited to 20 minutes, to be equally divided and controlled by the proponent and myself as the opponent.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Lowey), the ranking member.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Knollenberg), one of the very distinguished members of the subcommittee who has made some very significant contributions to this bill and has been one of our most valuable members through the years.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?

Mr. KOLBE. I thank the gentlewoman for her attention to this important issue. Children that are affected by HIV/AIDS are a group that tugs at the heart strings of all people. I have worked closely with USAID and the Global AIDS coordinator to develop an integrated, comprehensive approach to fighting this disease, and pediatric AIDS is a core component of that approach. While I applaud the gentlewoman's intentions, I believe that in some circumstances, integrated treatment and care centers where both adults and children can receive attention would be more appropriate. However, I will be happy to work with the gentlewoman, the Global AIDS coordinator, USAID, and other concerned parties to ensure that orphans and vulnerable children receive proper treatment, care and support, as part of a comprehensive approach to fighting this disease.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. Granger).

Mr. KOLBE

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that during further consideration of H.R. 4818 in the Committee of the Whole pursuant to House Resolution 715, the remainder of the bill be considered as read and open for amendment at any point, and no further amendment to the bill may be offered except: Pro forma amendments offered at any point in the reading by the chairman or ranking minority member of the Committee on Appropriations or their designees for the purpose of debate; Amendments 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 14, and 21; Amendments 11 and 17 which shall be debatable for 20 minutes; Amendment 15, which shall be debatable for 30 minutes; Amendments 9, 13 and 18, which shall be debatable for 40 minutes; An amendment by Mr. Garrett of New Jersey regarding conference attendance; An amendment by Ms. Jackson-Lee of Texas regarding agricultural development in sub-Saharan Africa; An amendment by Mr. Sanders regarding Export-Import Bank loans, which shall be debatable for 40 minutes; An amendment by Mr. Deal of Georgia regarding extradition, which shall be debatable for 20 minutes; An amendment by Mr. Weiner regarding Saudi Arabia, which shall be debatable for 30 minutes; An amendment by Mr. Buyer regarding monitoring of elections, which shall be debatable for 20 minutes; An amendment by Mr. Otter regarding West Bank/Gaza; An amendment by Mr. Menendez regarding Latin America child survival and development assistance; An amendment by Mr. Schiff regarding Armenian genocide; An amendment by Ms. Lee regarding Global AIDS, which shall be debatable for 30 minutes; An amendment by Ms. DeLauro regarding child survival; An amendment by Ms. Waters regarding contract fraud; and An amendment by Ms. McCollum regarding unexploded ordnance. Each such amendment may be offered only by the Member designated in this request, or a designee, or the Member who caused it to be printed in the Record, or a designee, shall be considered as read, shall not be subject to amendment, and shall not be subject to a demand for division of the question in the House or in the Committee of the Whole. Except as otherwise specified, each amendment shall be debatable for 10 minutes, equally divided and controlled by the proponent and an opponent. An amendment shall be considered to fit the description stated in this request if it addresses in whole or in part the object described.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for his comments and certainly concur.

Mr. KOLBE

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment. I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, I agree completely with the sentiments expressed by the gentleman from Idaho (Mr. Otter). We certainly should not tolerate support for terrorism by any organization, that includes the Palestinian Authority. Indeed, the bill that is before you prohibits funds for the Authority, prohibits all funds for the Palestinian Authority, and includes a number of provisions affecting West Bank Gaza programs that would prohibit funds for any group or individual that supports terrorism. This year the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Lowey) and I strengthen the prohibition on funding for terrorist groups by banning funding through the West Bank/Gaza program for any individual, any individual or group that advocates terrorism. The new provision also requires an immediate cut-off of funds if any group currently receiving funds advocates or engages in terrorist activities. On the other hand, it is important to continue the West Bank/Gaza programs because they provide important humanitarian and infrastructure assistance for the Palestinian people. It is important to stress that all of the funds in this program are provided through nongovernmental organizations or through American contractors, or in some cases, Israeli contractors for water and sewer infrastructure programs. Not one cent goes to the Palestinian Authority. I appreciate the concerns that the gentleman has expressed. They are the concerns of this subcommittee, and they are, I can assure the gentleman, expressed in the bill here. I understand the gentleman is prepared to withdraw his amendment.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentleman from California (Mr. Rohrabacher).

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on the amendment.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for his comments. I have to say that I find that these are very troubling charges, but we have only been recently informed of the issue. I intend to ask the State Department for further information regarding the situation, and I can assure the gentleman from California (Mr. Rohrabacher) that I will give it serious consideration. The way Ethiopia deals with this issue will weigh heavily in the decisions we make in terms of policy and levels of assistance. So I appreciate the gentleman bringing this to our attention, and I will ask my staff to work with the gentleman to move towards a resolution.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Lowey).

Mr. KOLBE. I yield to the gentleman from New Jersey.

Mr. KOLBE. I thank the gentleman with his comments. I am confident with his support and that of other Members of this body, we will get the attention of the administration on this issue. Amendment Offered by Mr. Otter

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Indiana (Mr. Souder). (Mr. SOUDER asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to the amendment.

Mr. KOLBE

Mr. KOLBE. I yield to the gentlewoman from Texas.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on this amendment, and I claim the time in opposition.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I will not make a point of order on the amendment. I will conclude the debate. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Chairman, I will not use the full time, but I do rise in opposition to the pending amendment. It is the wrong amendment. Especially, it is the wrong amendment at the wrong time. I am a little bit reminded of the earlier amendment that we had by the gentleman from California (Mr. Lantos), where I rose to say the timing could not be worse for this sort of amendment, and I think in this case the timing is very bad for this amendment. There is no question that elements of the Saudi government in the past have not been helpful to the United States in the global war on terrorism, but I do not think anyone can deny that, with the targeting of the Saudi Government by Osama bin Laden, it now knows and understands that it is a prime target of international terrorism as well. The government of Saudi Arabia has greatly increased its efforts to root out terrorism. It has greatly increased its cooperation in intelligence matters and others with the United States. During the current fiscal year, the United States has been involved in training security services of Saudi Arabia to meet the threat to both them and to us, and that gets us to the heart of what we are talking about. By declaring them a terrorist state, we cut off the aid. The gentleman from New York has said, let us cut off every single dollar. Well, it is precious few dollars we provide here. It is $1 million in one account and $25,000 in another. A million dollars is spent through the Antiterrorism Assistance Program funded in this bill to provide courses in such areas as terrorist crime scene investigation, explosive incident countermeasures, investigation of terrorist organizations. These are the things that our law enforcement specialties do and do very well, and we are in Saudi Arabia helping to train them or to bring them here in order to train them in just exactly these kinds of techniques, of how to go after a bomb investigation, how to do the counterintelligence kinds of work that has to be done. It seems to me, given the targeting that has been done in Saudi Arabia of some Americans, as well as other European individuals and assets, that it is in our interest to have a Saudi Arabian police force, law enforcement agencies that are trained in these very special kinds of techniques. I would argue that these small sums are well spent. The more that we can engage the security services of Saudi Arabia, the more that we can build a relationship between our antiterrorist organizations and those of the Saudi Government. Now, the other amount that we provide is a very small sum of $25,000 through the International Military Education and Training Program, or IMET as it is called, to help train and increase military contacts with the Saudi military. Some would say, why not charge the Saudi government for this training? But, in fact, that is precisely what we do. By providing the relatively modest sum of $25,000, which allows for the training of one single officer in this country for one program, we allow them access to the program. The results in Saudi Arabia is that Saudi Arabia has spent $13 million of its own funds here in the United States to train over 400 students at U.S. military schools. This is training that exposes Saudi officers to U.S. military doctrines, to training regimes, to assistance and most importantly, yes, to U.S. values. In the global war on terrorism, now is not the time for us to turn away from the cooperation and the efforts that we are getting with the government of Saudi Arabia. Yes, albeit belatedly, but they have turned to us for assistance and cooperation, and I think we all understand we need all of the friends and allies that we can get. This may not be the perfect ally. I would acknowledge freely that it is not. But I do think in these areas where this funding is involved we are getting some very substantial cooperation from the Saudis. To reduce or eliminate this funding by putting them on the list of terrorist states seems to be absolutely counterproductive to everything that we are trying to do. I would acknowledge that the Saudi Arabian government has been remiss in the past in its commitment to combating terrorism, but I think, as I said a moment ago, that is changing, and I think we need to encourage that change, not discourage it. The administration does strongly oppose this amendment, and I would ask that a letter from Assistant Secretary William Burns in opposition to this amendment be placed in the Record at this point. United States Department of State, Washington, DC. Hon. Jim Kolbe, Chairman, Subcommittee on Foreign Operations, Export Financing and Related Agencies, Committee on Appropriations, House of Representatives. Dear Mr. Chairman: It is our understanding that the United States House of Representatives is considering a provision to the fiscal year 2005 Foreign Operations, Export Financing and Related Programs Appropriations bill which would add the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to Section 507, the list of countries prohibited from receiving direct assistance from the United States. Saudi Arabia was among the first countries to condemn the September 2001 attacks and has worked closely with the United States since then in the global war against terrorism. Since the May 2003 al-Qaeda bombings in Riyadh, our cooperation with Saudi law enforcement and intelligence agencies has been increasingly effective and mutually beneficial. Saudi Arabia is now taking aggressive steps to combat terrorists at home, and to choke off financing for terrorist entities being channeled through charities overseas. The Administration strongly opposes efforts to add the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to this list of state sponsors of terrorism and urges that the House reject the amendment offered by Representative Weiner, which would severely undermine our counterterrorism cooperation with Saudi Arabia at precisely the moment when it is moving to a new level of effectiveness. This amendment would also undermine our important interests in cooperation with Saudi Arabia on other critical issues in the region, including the stabilization of Iraq and the pursuit of Palestinian-Israeli peace. We would appreciate your support in defeating Representative Weiner's amendment. Sincerely, William J. Burns, Assistant Secretary of State. The adoption of this amendment would only hearten those who seek to drive a wedge between the United States and Arab regimes that are cooperating with us on the war on terrorism, and for that reason alone, I urge the defeat of this amendment.

Mr. KOLBE

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the distinguished gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. Lowey), ranking member of the subcommittee.

Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. Obey), distinguished ranking member of the full committee.