Dave Obey

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. I appreciate that. I think that that is probably the only way that we are going to avoid an extended debate which will be frustrating to both sides. I thank the gentleman.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I move the Committee do now rise.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I take this time to inform the House tongue in cheek that I have just been informed by an intelligence agency that the Netherlands are preparing for an invasion by the United States in response to the bill now before us. I have a note from Harry DeWit, counselor of cultural affairs, Netherlands Embassy saying, ``We are quite alarmed to hear about the impending invasion of the Netherlands. Our military is on high alert. We would really value you forwarding any news and relevant information as soon as it comes to your attention and, in particular, as it regards the timing. I would like to be able to notify my superiors at the ministry prior to any invasion, and by doing so, I hope to improve my chances for promotion. I would appreciate your contacting me at your earliest convenience.'' Mr. Chairman, I assume that is because the DeLay amendment to this bill, which is now part of this bill, gives the President the authority to use military force to extract prisoners from the World Court if they are accused of war crimes, but it does not just apply to U.S. citizens, it also applies to allies. So we could have an appointed official from a foreign country who we are going to use our military force against such as the Netherlands in order to ``rescue.'' If we did that, I am informed we would also be in violation of the NATO charter, because the NATO charter says, if you make war against one NATO ally, you make war against them all. I have a chart here which I showed my colleagues yesterday labeled ``Tom DeLay's Proposed Invasion of the Netherlands.'' It shows that perhaps we might do it by sea, we might do it by air, we might involve paratroopers. To make sure that this time, the gentleman from Texas knows where the Hague is, we have listed it on the map. I do not know what military force the Netherlands would use to repel our invasion, but I assume they will use something. So I would simply say that this appears like a laughing matter, but it is not. The greatest deliberative body in the world, the House of Representatives, for the greatest democracy in the world, the United States of America, ought to approach these issues with more seriousness than was demonstrated by the lack of care in the drafting of the DeLay amendment. I think the DeLay amendment raises a legitimate question with respect to United States citizens, but I think the proper way to deal with that is to allow the President to negotiate changes in the treaty, rather than having Congress ride off like the Lone Ranger, Marshal Dillon, and Daffy Duck at the same time. So with that, I would urge Members to think soberly about how this proposal as presently constituted makes us look to the world. Motion To Rise Offered by Mr. Obey

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I agree with the gentleman, and I am perfectly willing to ask people on my side of the aisle to withhold their comments so that we can get to additional amendments, if the same thing would happen on that side.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank my good friend for yielding. Mr. Chairman, let me simply say that debt is not only rung up when you appropriate money, whether it is for war or for education. Debt is also added to if you pass tax cuts that are paid for with borrowed money; and that is what the majority party did to a fare-thee-well last year. I thank the gentleman for yielding.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the requisite number of words. I yield to the gentleman from California (Mr. Sherman).

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. OBEY. . . .

Mr. OBEY. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, would the gentleman yield so I can correct that mistake with a fact?

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman is filling in with misstatements.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from Kansas (Mr. Tiahrt) be allowed to proceed for 3 additional minutes.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I should say at the outset that the provision provided in this legislation by the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DeLay), I will admit is more thoughtful than the propositions which we usually get from him; but nonetheless, I would like to again correct the record, and I would urge the gentleman to read his own amendment. I indicated in my remarks that I thought the gentleman may have raised a legitimate concern insofar as U.S. citizens are concerned. But I would point out that his language goes far beyond just protecting U.S. citizens. It says, ``The President may use all means necessary to bring about the release of any person,'' of any person, and it says, ``the persons authorized to be freed are not only United States citizens but covered allied persons.'' And then the legislation goes on to describe who those allied persons are: ``Elected or appointed officials or other persons employed by or working on behalf of the government of a NATO member country, a major non-NATO ally, including Australia, Egypt, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Argentina, the Republic of Korea, New Zealand or Taiwan.'' Clap, if you please. The gentleman says this does not only apply to the geographical region of the Hague, it applies to any other region of the world where one of those allied personnel could be held. I submit to you the large amount of applause from that side of the aisle indicates just how reckless apparently a good many people in this Congress are. I would suggest, as I did in my earlier remarks, that if you want to deal with this issue in a serious way, you will not, on the basis of a 20-minute debate that took place in the Committee on Appropriations, adopt a multi-page bill which serves as a Gulf of Tonkin Resolution not just to protect our own citizens, but anyone else in the world. It just seems to me that that does indeed make the United States the laughing stock. And I do not think the United States deserves that. Now, the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DeLay) has a perfect right to offer it, and anyone who wants to support it has a perfect right to support it. I personally think that it is a good concern which in its draftsmanship is ill conceived and over-reaches. And if it is indeed to become law, then it needs substantial repair in order to protect the dignity of the United States, and reflect the common sense which usually is supposed to come from this body.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I object to the vote on the ground that a quorum is not present and make the point of order that a quorum is not present.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest the answer to the gentleman is that the only reason at this point that this is in here with this outlandish estimate is to make the bill look like it is paid for when it is not. This $1.3 billion savings, in my view, is a fictional savings of OMB and the Committee on the Budget.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I move the Committee do now rise.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Fattah).

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Washington (Mr. Dicks).

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding. There are 2 distinct issues on this point. First is what will happen to U.S. Air, and, frankly, I cannot tell, and that is the problem. The second problem is that the original committee provision was scored as saving $400 million. That was the proposition that said that the Transportation Department could not issue any loans from this point on for the remainder of the fiscal year. That was estimated by CBO to save $400 million, but now we are being told that even though it is being suggested that this loan may go ahead, we are still being told by OMB, and I understand the House Committee on the Budget, that we are going to save $1.3 billion by this provision, even though the loan that is being foregone is allegedly going ahead. I find that hard to follow.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Indiana (Mr. Visclosky).

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now adjourn.