Dave Obey

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. If the gentleman would continue to yield, I think a number of Members would be very disturbed if they are asked to provider an opportunity to only open the District of Columbia Government without also having an opportunity to try to open up the Government for all taxpayers.

Mr. OBEY. If the gentleman would continue to yield, I want to make it clear to the gentleman that, if he expects to put us in a box tomorrow in which we are asked to provide for the opening of the Government only for a few narrow categories, we expect to have the right to try to expand that opportunity to open the Government, and if he expects us to cooperate on any unanimous-consent agreement, I think then he needs to understands right now that we need some cooperation in that respect.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman would continue to yield, will the gentleman assure us that there will be an opportunity for us--let me put it this way. If there are certain specific programs which are to receive the favored attention of the House, I would like to know how we might also get into play several other crucial programs that also ought to be brought to the attention of the House. We cannot do that under unanimous consent unless we have an initial request which makes it possible to do so. That is why I think it would be preferable to go to the Committee on Rules if the gentleman is looking for cooperation from those who have other legitimate concerns.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman will continue to yield, I do not think that it is appropriate for this House to deal with considerations such as that under unanimous consent because it would preclude our opportunity to discuss in any meaningful way whatsoever the issues that are before us. It would also preclude us from trying to amend it in any way to deal with other legitimate concerns and needs. I would urge the gentleman, if he wants this considered on the square, to do it the way it ought to be done, which is to go to the Committee on Rules.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, if I could inquire of the majority leader, when does he intend to be going to the Committee on Rules to obtain a rule for whatever action would be contemplated taken with D.C., AFDC, Medicaid, or, I understand now that the gentleman has several other significant problems which he was not aware of last night.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the Committee on Appropriations be discharged from further consideration of House Joint Resolution 131, a clean continuing resolution extending the date of the existing CR to January 26, authorizing a 2.4 percent military pay raise effective January 1, and eliminating the 6-month disparity between COLA payment dates for military and civilian retirees in fiscal 1996, and ask for its immediate consideration in the House.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. No, I will not, until the gentleman demonstrates some degree of courtesy.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Speaker, let me simply say that nobody is opposed to this bill. This bill will pass, probably 435 to nothing. Our objection is not to this proposal. Our objection is to not going beyond this proposal. We are here because the appropriations legislation was delayed for 90 days in this House because our friends on the Republican side of the aisle wanted first to adopt their contract. That is their privilege. They are in the majority. They run the House. But as a practical consequence of that, that meant that the appropriations bills were shoved back 90 days in the cycle. That meant that there was no possible way for the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. Livingston] to produce all of the appropriation bills on time. The when the bills were brought to the floor, a number of extraneous legislative items were added to the bills, and that slowed up consideration of those bills even more. That meant that by the time of October 1, the beginning of the new fiscal year, a huge number of appropriation bills had not yet become law. That and only that necessitated the passage of a continuing resolution. You do not need a continuing resolution to keep discussions going between the President and the Speaker on a 7-year budget proposal. You need a continuing resolution simply because the 1-year appropriations have not become law. So tonight we have a proposition before us under which the majority party is saying that they will not allow the remainder of the Government to reopen; since they have been closed down this week, they only want us to allow the Veterans Department to reopen, and then only for certain purposes. Now, we think it is fine that this bill will say, OK, let us pay veterans' benefits, let us pay veterans' disability benefits, let us pay veterans' pensions, let us pay their education benefits, and also let us pay some contractors with the VA. But we would also ask the following questions: Why should we not also allow the Veterans Department to process legitimate new claims for veterans' benefits? Some 2,000 veterans will apply each week for benefits to which they are entitled by law. Why should not the Veterans Department be open to provide those services? Why should the Veterans Department not be open, further, to provide services for home loans? Veterans have earned the right to those home loans. Why should they not be allowed to have those claims processed? I would also ask, why should not veterans who want to go to Yosemite be able to get in? Why should not veterans who need education loans be able to have those processed, or to have the Pell grants open for application for everyone? Why should we only open up the Government for a very narrow band of American citizens? The taxpayers have paid their hard-earned money so that they might get all of the Government services to which they are entitled, and unless we go beyond this resolution tonight, they will not get those services. That is our objection. What is happening is very clear. There was an agreement yesterday that the President and the leaders of both parties would try to reopen discussions for a 7-year budget, and at the same time, they would explore ways to open the Government for all citizens. Instead, tonight, the network news tells us because that agreement blew up in the Republican caucus, again we face the prospect of not having any continuation of services from those departments shut down. Mr. Speaker, the gentlemen in the well here likes to laugh every time somebody else is speaking. I would ask him for the same courtesy I give him every time he speaks.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from Virginia [Mr. Moran].

Mr. OBEY. At this point, in its present form, Mr. Speaker, I certainly am.

Mr. OBEY. We would also add all other remaining functions of the Government which have been closed down up until now. We would also, as I said, guarantee that the military receive their 2.5 percent pay raise, and correct the differential that now exists between civilian pay and military pay, so that the military pay would be provided in the same terms and conditions as civilian pay. Mr. Speaker, I would urge the adoption of the motion to recommit. point of order

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, at the direction of the minority leader, I offer a motion to recommit.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I may consume. Mr. Speaker, let me take this time to point out that the recommit motion that I will offer would simply do everything that the motion before us purports to do. Our motion would open up the government for all of the veterans services described in the motion before us. We would add to that all other services to be provided, that could be provided by the Veterans Department, so the Veterans Department is open for all programs, for servicing all programs. We would expand that to provide, in fact, a clean CR through January 26 for all other functions of government, and we would at the same time authorize the 2.4 percent military pay raise for our servicemen and eliminate the 6-month disparity between COLA payment dates for military and civilian retirees, so we can assure that our military personnel will in fact be treated fairly, and will in fact receive their full COLA. As we know, Mr. Speaker, the authorization bill is expected to be vetoed. Without this language, we can, therefore, not guarantee our troops going to Bosnia that they will have the full COLA. We think we ought to do that and, most fundamentally, we think we ought to open all of the services of government because the taxpayers have paid for those services and they are entitled to receive them.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I demand a recorded vote.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, let me simply say that I think what is at stake here is that the American public is simply being held hostage to the power agenda of the new 73 freshmen who have come into this place on the Republican side of the aisle. They have a perfect right to be here and do anything they think is in the interests of their constituents, but the American citizens will judge the balance and the temperament that they bring to those efforts. I would simply say that what we really face was summed up by my very good friend, the chairman of the committee on Appropriations [Mr. Livingston]. When the President signed the Defense appropriation bill, against my advice, because I warned him that he would then lose whatever leverage he had on the remainder of the appropriations bills, the President signed that bill for two reasons: because he wanted a bipartisan consideration of his policy in Bosnia, and because he thought that it would be taken as a sign of goodwill to our Republican friends in the majority on other appropriation items. Instead, the following day, the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations said as follows: The President is at our mercy. If the government shuts down on December 15 and 300,000 people are again out of work, most of the people going out will be his people. I think he is going to care more than we do. Now, as everyone knows, I have a great deal of respect and affection for the chairman of this committee. We have been friends for years, and we have had a constructive working relationship for years. But I think that the leverage which other power centers in this body are bringing to bear on the appropriations process is making it very difficult for this House to do its duty to every single citizen in this country. We have a duty not just to disagree on what we disagree upon; we also have a duty to agree on that which we can agree upon. Right now, we ought to at least be able to agree upon the idea that every citizen of this country has a right to the full range of services that he has paid for. He cannot have access to those services when the Government is shut down. So what I ask my colleagues to do tonight is not only to support this resolution, but to support our efforts at the end of the debate in our recommittal motion to expand the services which are providing a narrow range for some veterans' programs, expand those to all veterans' programs and, indeed, all of the programs to which our citizens are entitled. if we do not do that, we are not earning our salaries; we are not providing the services which our taxpayers have a right to expect. Forget the leverage games, forget the zeal, remember your duty; open up the entire Government for the benefit of the American people.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I would simply comment on the comments of the previous speaker who addressed himself to something I said on the floor. I would simply note, I have observed him on three occasions this week sitting in the front row of the Chamber and loudly laughing at whoever it was who was speaking at the moment, disrupting their ability to speak. I think the House deserves better conduct than that from any Member. I would also make the point, if we want to talk about fiction, I would make the point that it was solid fact when we stated earlier in the day, and when I stated in that same statement, that the bill for veterans funding, for veterans health care was $213 million below the amount that the bill was when it left the House. That conference report contained a billion and a half dollars more in total funding, and yet they managed to cut the veterans funding by $213 million. The gentleman may feel that that is an adequate level of funding. That is his prerogative. I happen to honestly disagree. It would be nice if we could honestly disagree without constantly demonstrating physical disrespect for each other.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting veterans at the head of a line. We ought to put all of the veterans at the head of the line. What is wrong with making available Government services so that new veterans who are entitled to housing benefits, who are entitled to disability benefits, who are entitled to pensions; why do we not handle this resolution tonight so they can also get the services they need in order to get the aid that they have a right to expect from their Government? Why are our colleagues shutting the Government down to them and only opening it to people who already have those benefits?

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I will not take the 5 minutes I will only take 1. Mr. Speaker, as it now stands, government workers cannot volunteer to come in to work during the shutdown, but the Speaker has announced tonight that they will nonetheless be paid. What this motion would simply do, at the suggestion of the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. Moran], is that we simply say that since workers will be paid, the ought to be allowed to come in and work if they want to. That is in essence all this does. Mr. Speaker, let me simply, in asking for a ruling from the Chair, indicate that I think on both sides of the aisle we recognize that you have tried to do an extremely fair job tonight, and we congratulate you for it. point of order

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I would urge the Speaker to clear that request.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the rule just passed be amended to read as follows: It shall be also in order to consider an amendment by the minority leader or his designee adding at the end of House Joint Resolution 134 a new title II consisting of the text of House Joint Resolution 131, continuing funds for many critical Federal departments through January 26, 1996, and authorizing a 2.4 percent pay raise for the Armed Forces of the United States. All points of order shall be waived against such an amendment.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, evidently what the previous speaker is saying is they have not been able to fool the public, they have not been able to fool the President, they have not been able to fool the press, and somehow it is somebody's fault but not their own. If you want to know why your position is not selling, if you want to know why you are in trouble, look in the mirror. It is because of the way you have been acting. Do not blame somebody else for your own failure to meet your responsibilities. People know what you are doing. They have caught on. They do not like it and they want you to change it.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, there is not a day that goes by that when I pass the Capitol and take a look at the dome that I am not immensely proud of the privilege that I have of representing the people of my district in this Congress of the United States, in this great Capitol Building. I have profound respect and love for this institution and respect for every Member in it because of what they represent and who they represent. But I have to say there are some times when I get very disappointed about the conduct of this institution and people in this institution, and tonight is one such occasion. Anybody who knows me knows that I have strong partisan views and I am not afraid to express them. But I think anybody who has worked with me through the years also knows that when it comes to my legislative responsibilities, in dealing with my committee work, that I have always tried to approach that work in a bipartisan way, and I think the record speaks for itself. We produced 9 appropriations subcommittee bills under my chairmanship, all of which were bipartisan, and when I chaired the Committee on Appropriations last year, we produced an allocation of budget resources to all 13 subcommittees, which was a bipartisan allocation. I think we need that same approach tonight. Last night the networks told the country that the President, and the Speaker, and Senator Dole had begun talking again about the budget, and, as the networks showed tonight, Mr. Panetta came down here today expecting to try to negotiate on that and on the question of reopening the Federal Government. We are then told on the nightly news that the Republican caucus, led by the freshmen, decided to reject any effort whatsoever to reopen the Government until a total deal is consummated between the White House and the leadership of the Congress. As anyone who understands anything about government knows, even if agreement on policy were reached tonight, it would take a good period of time to draft the legislation necessary to reflect that policy. If we are truly interested in meeting our bipartisan responsibilities, what we would do is pass this motion before us tonight to allow veterans to be paid their benefits, but we would expand it so that all of Government, which is closed down, is opened. The taxpayers deserve to get the services they are paying for from all the workers in the Federal Government, not just those in the Veterans Department. Mr. Speaker, that is why I will be asking at the appropriate time that we defeat the previous question on this rule tonight so that we can offer a resolution which would allow all of the Government to reopen. I think it is just fine that this proposal would allow us to pay veterans' benefits, disability, pension, education benefits, but it will not allow us to process new claims for veterans' benefits, it will not allow us to deal with the same 2,000 claims a day that come for those benefits it will not allow us to tell our troops who are on the way to Bosnia that they will be guaranteed their military pay raise this year, their COLA, because we are not opening all of the Government under this resolution. I have talked to many of you on the majority side of the aisle, and I know you as human beings, and I know that there are a good many of you who do not agree with the idea of keeping Government closed down. I understand the peer pressure that is being put upon you. But I ask you to rise above that tonight and do what is necessary to restore some semblance of respect in the country for our processes in this institution by reopening all of Government and dealing with our divisions on long-term budget policy in a restrained, disciplined, and adult manner. That is the only way in my view that we can earn our pay the way the public expects us to earn our pay.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. I hope it will soon be cleared.

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the Committee on Appropriations be discharged from further consideration of House Joint Resolution 131, which is a clean continuing resolution to extend the Government through January 26, authorize 2.4 percent military pay raise, effective January 1, eliminate 6-month disparity between COLA payment dates for military and civilian retirees in fiscal 1996, and ask for its immediate consideration in the House.

Mr. OBEY

Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, as previous speakers have already indicated, the President indicated a long time ago that he was going to veto this bill, and he indicated that repeatedly because of his concern that this bill rips up his Cops on the Beat Program and a number of other concerns listed in the veto message. That is not the issue here today. The program with what is happening here today is that we are debating a perfunctory motion to which absolutely no one is opposed. This motion is simply to send the bill to committee. Everybody is going to support that. Mr. Speaker, instead of wasting time on this meaningless motion, what we ought to be doing, as the gentleman from West Virginia [Mr. Mollohan] has indicated, is bringing a clean continuing resolution to this floor to keep the Government open so that all programs, including these programs, can continue to function. What is rally at stake here is exactly what the gentleman from West Virginia has indicated. What is happening is that the Republican leadership of this House is trying to gain leverage on their discussions with the President on the 7-year budget by shutting down Government and holding hostage all of these programs and all of the people running them until the President caves in to the demands of the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Gingrich]. Mr. Speaker, what is at stake here was summed up by the chairman of the Committee on Appropriations in a press conference he held after President Clinton signed the defense bill. When the President signed the defense bill, my good friend, the gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. Livingston], then said as follows: ``The President is at our mercy. If the Government shuts down on December 15 and 300,000 people are again out of work, most of the people going out will be his people. I think he's going to care more about that than we do.'' Mr. Speaker, that is apparent today. It is very apparent that there is very little concern on the part of the majority party leadership for the individual workers in this country who are being crunched because of a power game between the White House and the Speaker of the House. Mr. Speaker, the leverage games ought to stop. I know full well that if those leverage games were not going on, the subcommittee chairman of this subcommittee and the ranking Democrat could work out these differences in half an hour, because they are both good men. I know that would happen. The fact is, this debate is a waste of time. For any of our citizens who happen to be watching it today, it is a sad day in my view because it once again demonstrates that we are mistaking motion for movement. We should not be wasting our time on a meaningless motion like this. I would urge the Speaker of the House to immediately bring a continuing resolution to the floor so that this charade can stop, so that Government can stay open, so that Government agencies can provide the services to which the taxpayers are entitled, and stop the political game.