Richard Pombo

Mr. POMBO

Mr. POMBO. Again, Mr. Chairman----

Mr. POMBO. Again point of order, Mr. Chairman. He is not addressing the point of order in which I raised.

Mr. POMBO. Again, Mr. Chairman, I have to raise a point of order.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, the amendment offered by the gentleman from New York [Mr. Owens] violates clause 2 of rule XXI of the Rules of the House. The amendment is clearly a legislative provision and, therefore, should not be added to the appropriations bill.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order.

Mr. POMBO. Point of order. I do not believe the gentleman is addressing the point of order which I raised. I believe he does feel very strongly about his amendment, which is out of order, but he is not addressing the point of order which I raised.

Mr. POMBO

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I deemed a recorded vote.

Mr. POMBO. So the gentleman's definition of this is that the Federal officials themselves would be determining that.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I say to the gentleman, ``You in your amendment say that the volunteers are not properly trained or that information gathered by the volunteers is not carefully verified. I would like to ask the maker of this amendment who will be determining whether or not the volunteers are properly trained or that the information is carefully verified.''

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. POMBO. If the gentleman would yield, the reason that we are banning them on science is that you are fully aware of the fact that there is very little effort on the part of private property owners in this country to participate with volunteers. We feel that the best way to collect scientific data is using professionals, and we feel it is extremely important that we use the best science possible.

Mr. POMBO. If the director of the National Biological Survey is giving me bad information, I apologize.

Mr. POMBO. When we started getting into this whole argument about what we did with NSB, the National Biological Survey, in maintaining the science function, I was told as we passed on the House floor last year, there was a ban on volunteers, that the National Biological Survey was not using volunteers in accordance with the ban that was passed on the House floor.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to comment that the reason that we wanted to ban volunteers in the scientific part of this bill was we feel that we need to depend upon better science than what is being used right now, and that if you have volunteers out gathering scientific data, that data can come back reflecting the agenda of the volunteers. If we are going to, as policymakers, make decisions based on science, we need to have it based on good science. If you have a bunch of volunteers running all over the country supposedly collecting scientific data, I believe that the data can come back skewed one way or the other, which does not benefit us. What the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Regula] is trying to do with this amendment is to cure one part of the bill that was overlooked when they drafted it. I believe it is a correct amendment. I support that amendment. But I will also support the ban on volunteers in gathering scientific data that we are supposed to base our decisions on.

Mr. POMBO. I yield to the gentleman from Michigan.

Mr. POMBO. I yield to the gentleman from Ohio.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the requisite number of words.

Mr. POMBO

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding this time to me, and it is quite entertaining to listen to this debate and the poor-mouthing that is going on about the poor people, the poor Federal Government, that has not been able to purchase land. I think that the facts may surprise a few people. Out of 650 million acres that the Federal Government currently owns, 35 million acres have been bought in the last 20 years, 35 million acres. Now the gentleman from Florida [Mr. Mica] talks about Florida and areas that he would like to protect in Florida, and granted they may be areas that need to be protected and maybe should be bought and set aside as a preserve, or a wildlife habitat, or a wilderness area for that matter, but in looking through the GAO report, the Federal Government owns 4 million acres in the State of Florida already. Now is all this 4 million acres land that the Federal Government should own, or maybe should some of it be sold so some money could be gathered up to purchase the land? I think that it is extremely important that we realize that the Federal Government is adding land every year, not just purchasing land every year, but we are authorizing them to purchase more. It was brought up by the gentleman from California [Mr. Miller] that we approved a new park recently which I did not happen to agree and think was that great an idea. I think that maybe we ought to look at all the parks we have right now and decide whether or not they are all that we have. But we have 650 million acres of Federal land. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot sell off some of that Federal land to purchase some of these sensitive environmental areas, some of these areas that would be ideal endangered-species habitat or wilderness areas. As the gentleman knows, in my State, 50 percent of which the Federal Government owns, we have enough Federal land. We would be willing to sell some of our land to purchase some sensitive areas. I think that we have to really look at what we are talking about doing here instead of continuing to add more and more Federal lands.

Mr. POMBO

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to recognize and honor Rear Adm. John Hekman, Supply Corps, U.S. Navy, as he prepares to retire on 28 July 1995. Rear Admiral Hekman is completing over 33 years of dedicated service to the Navy and our Nation. A native of Ripon, CA. Rear Admiral Hekman graduated from Calvin College and was commissioned through Officer Candidate School in 1962. He subsequently earned a Masters of Business Administration degree from George Washington University, and is a graduate of the National War College, class of 1980. Rear Admiral Hekman is a CAPSTONE Fellow and a 1992 graduate of the Senior Executive Program in National and International Security at Harvard University. For the final tour of his distinguished career, Rear Admiral Hekman currently commands the Naval Information Systems Management Center in Arlington, VA, and is the principal assistant to the Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Information Resources. In his current position Admiral Hekman has provided the leadership and direction for business process reengineering, information technology, enterprise planning, and the procurement of ADP equipment and software for Navy and Marine Corps activities. Rear Admiral Hekman's other tours ashore have included command at the Defense General Supply Center in Richmond, VA, and the Navy Supply in Charleston, SC. He has also served at the Navy Finance Center, Cleveland, OH; Navy Supply Systems Command, Washington DC; Navy Fleet Material Support Office, Mechanicsburg, PA; Staff of U.S. Pacific Fleet, Pearl Harbor, HI; and at the Naval Support Activity, DaNang, Vietnam. Admiral Hekman served at sea aboard U.S.S. Fiske, a destroyer that participated in the 1962 Cuban crisis and made deployments to the Mediterranean and Indian Ocean while he was aboard. He also served on the U.S.S. Samuel Gompers, a destroyer tender and on the staff of Cruiser Destroyer Group One where he served in the Western Pacific. Admiral Hekman's decorations include the Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion [[Page E 1430]] of Merit with one Gold Star, the meritorious Service Medal with two Gold Stars, the Navy Commendation medal with Combat ``V'', the Navy Achievement Medal, and numerous unit and campaign medals. He is a dynamic and resourceful naval officer who throughout his tenure has proven to be an indispensable asset to our nation and Navy. His superior contributions and distinguished service will have long term benefits for the U.S. Navy. Mr. Speaker, John Hekman and his wife Gail have made many sacrifices during his 33-year naval career. It is only fitting that we should recognize their many accomplishments and thank them for the many years of service to our country. I ask all of my colleagues on both sides of the isle to join me today in wishing this great American every success as well as ``Fair Winds and Following Seas'' as he brings to close a long and distinguished career.

Mr. POMBO

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, my colleague from California very eloquently stated the problem that we have with trying to implement ideas and disagreements that exist between people. What we are faced with right now is universities that may have a disagreement with Federal policy and Federal law. Their response to that is to kick off the young men and women who belong to ROTC, to kick them off campus because they may share a differing point of view or they may represent an agency of the Federal Government that has a differing point of view than the leaders of that university do. Their response to that is to put them out of sight and out of mind and say, ``We are not going to deal with that.'' But at the same time they require that the Federal funding continue to come to that university, and they continue to request that the Federal Government continue to fund their programs at their university.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from New York [Mr. Solomon].

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I have 1 additional speaker. I would inquire if they have any additional speakers on the other side.

Mr. POMBO. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Kingston].