Ralph Regula

Mr. REGULA

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, there is no question that this is a great project for the people that have a chance to view it, and I am pleased to note that the State and the local community is supporting it. But I would have to point out to the gentleman that this is not Federal land and we cannot meet all the operational and maintenance needs of the refuge system, the Federal refuge system. We have requests in our committee for $175 million worth of non- Federal projects. We just simply had to take a position that we cannot do any because if we do one, then we have to perhaps try to do a lot of others. There is a waiting list of construction and maintenance projects within the Fish and Wildlife, projects that are on existing Federal lands. I would suggest to the gentleman that he might consider trying to get this authorized as a Federal site and then it would be easier for us to consider it. But under the present circumstances, we simply cannot start down the road of funding non-Federal projects. I would hope the gentleman would withdraw the amendment. We do have to oppose it on the basis that we have rejected $175 million worth of other projects.

Mr. REGULA. If the gentleman will yield further, again let me assure the gentleman that the committee considers this a worthy project and I will be happy to work with him as we move forward in conference negotiations with the other body.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman is correct. The Fish and Wildlife Service has told the committee that funds for planning and design are sufficient to continue this project through fiscal year 2000 and that further construction funding will not be needed for obligation until 2001. Let me assure the gentleman that the committee is committed to completing this project and to providing additional funding in the future when it is needed.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on this amendment.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I think it should be pointed out here that part of this cut would come out of the money we give to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation, which is a very responsible organization. They leverage these dollars three to one. For every one we have, they raise three in the private sector. They have a limit of 5 percent on administrative costs. They are extremely helpful in developing the habitat conservation programs. I know that the HCPs would be something the gentleman, I believe, would strongly endorse. Because it basically takes the private sector, lays out an area for economic growth in an area for habitat, and I think it is, from what I have observed, a very positive program.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman would yield further, the meeting is scheduled for next Thursday. I was there the night when the commitment was made. We will raise all the issues that the gentleman has outlined today with Fish and Wildlife. Amendment Offered by Mr. Coburn

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I have two comments. First of all, we as a committee have a difficult time making judgments on listings because of hundreds of them, as my colleague well knows. Secondly, we do have a meeting scheduled next week on the very issue brought up. I would like to invite the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Callahan) to come to that meeting. We will be in touch with him. I plan to be there. We will have people from Fish and Wildlife, and I think we should raise the very issues that my colleague has pointed out here today.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. I think I would respond to the gentleman by saying this is the program. It is not just administration. The number we have is the program. We had a lot of requests from Members on both sides of the aisle to give some additional assistance here. I think, on balance, Fish and Wildlife has tried to be very responsible in the use of the monies we provide.

Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gentleman from Oklahoma.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. I realize the gentleman has withdrawn his amendment, but I would point out a couple of facts, and that is that all we gave in the Washington office were for fixed costs, nothing more. There are no more people. It is a summary alignment that sort of distorted the numbers. So, in reality, we were just trying to get the fixed costs. Also, I would mention to my colleagues that they have a wide range of responsibilities that do not always appear to most of us. When we were on the committee trip, we visited the forensic lab of the Fish and Wildlife Service, one of the finest facilities in the world, and they are called upon to provide assistance in many areas other than the United States, and of course they are compensated. They deal with the problem of illegal taking of species. We have a treaty, the so-called Convention on International Trade and Endangered Species, and 150 nations are signatory to this treaty. It involves preventing the importation of endangered animals. They work with the Customs Service, a very impressive facility to say the least. And that of course comes under the administrative budget. It is something that most people are not aware of, and yet it is a very vital part of having responsible enforcement of the Endangered Species Act and to ensure that we are not getting contraband in terms of furs or in terms of ivory that puts a burden on species in other parts of the world. So I am pleased that the gentleman is going to withdraw this amendment, but I did want to mention these things because it is part of the Fish and Wildlife Service that does not get a lot of attention, but which is very important in terms of preserving species that I think are valuable to all of society.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I can remember when Frank Evans offered the amendment in the Subcommittee on Interior that created PILT and was legislating on the appropriation. But I gather the gentleman from Minnesota (Mr. Oberstar) did not object.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, it is easy to pick out the big ones and point to them, but a lot of this money goes to very small companies that have innovative ideas. Every company started with an idea that one person had, whether it is Bell Telephone, Graham Bell or whomever. We find that most of this research is being done by small companies. They come up with their 50 percent. It is not easy for them to do it, but they believe in their ideas. A very small amount, relatively, is going to the large companies. They are doing a lot of research on their own. But my concern is that we as a Nation do not want to become dependent for energy on other outside sources. We are going to spend $265 billion on defense. One of the most important elements of the defense of this Nation is to be energy independent. We found out in the late 1970s what it means to be dependent, in that case on OPEC. They called the tune, and we had lines for over a mile at our gasoline stations. We are trying to avoid that by looking to the future. We have cut it 20 percent over the last 4 years. At the same time, we increased PILT 23 percent. I have to say to the gentleman, I think that is responsible management, given the amount of resources we have. I know it is easy to take a whack on the fossil program. We have a prior amendment that has taken a whack on fossil. It is becoming the bank for every amendment that comes down the pike because it is sort of easy to attack because it is hard to visualize the benefits of a program like fossil energy research. But the State of the gentleman from Vermont, I am quite sure, is very dependent on outside sources for energy. He would want his State to be energy independent for his industry and his other base to have the energy it needs. So I hope that the Members will reject this amendment.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment on behalf of the gentleman from Louisiana (Mr. McCrery).

Mr. REGULA

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, we have no problem with this amendment. It simply codifies what we had directed be done last year in the bill, and so it is appropriate to accept this amendment and we support it.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, I would advise the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Ney) that we have cut this account $2 million already below the 1999 level and recognize that, in an effort to save money, this I think might be a little bit heavy. We need to assess it, and we could do that in the conference procedure.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the last word. Mr. Chairman, this is an 11-page piece of legislation. I think normally it should be handled by the authorizing committees. We do not have any objection to the substance of the amendment and are not going to oppose it. But I do think that it ought to be considered as part of the authorizing process. However, we will not object.

Mr. REGULA. I yield to the gentleman from Washington.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I think it is a good amendment. We made a real effort in the arts to broaden the base, and this is just one more step in making that happen. I think when Mr. Yates was here we had some groups come in from situations that the gentleman described and performed, and it made us realize how important access to the arts were in their lives.

Mr. REGULA. Mr. Chairman, I move that the Committee do now rise.