Bob Smith

Mr. SMITH

Mr. SMITH. I yield whatever time the Senator from Utah consumes.

Mr. SMITH. I will propound a unanimous consent request. I ask unanimous consent that a vote occur on or in relation to the Smith amendment at 8:45 and the time between now and 8:45 be equally divided between the two sides.

Mr. SMITH. The Senator from Arkansas asked for how much time?

Mr. SMITH. That depends on whether or not the Senator wants to miss the vote.

Mr. SMITH. Did the Senator say 8:30?

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I believe everyone on our side has spoken who wishes to speak. How much time does the Senator wish?

Mr. SMITH. I would say to the Senator from Rhode Island, we are working on that. We are very close. We are not quite there. We need to confer with Senator Hatch for a few moments. We may very well be able to come up with an agreement very similar to what the Senator just indicated, if he could give us a few more minutes.

Mr. SMITH. The Senator from New Hampshire is not the sponsor of the amendment. The Senator from New Hampshire offered the amendment.

Mr. SMITH. I believe it was 17 days, I say to my colleague, Senator Chafee. But I need to check that.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I will try to explain the amendment. First, I yield to the majority leader. Schedule

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that reading of the amendment be dispensed with.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I send a second-degree amendment to the desk and ask for its immediate consideration.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I move to reconsider the vote.

Mr. SMITH. I will quote from a letter from a Dr. Dorothy Czarnecki, an ob-gyn from Philadelphia. She says: Dear Senator Smith: I appreciate your efforts on behalf of the ``partial-birth abortion'' controversy. In no way are these done only on abnormal infants. This is just another brutal way to destroy life. This procedure is not necessary to protect the life or health of women in this country. Another one from Dr. Lauri Scott, M.D., assistant professor of maternal-fetal medicine in Dallas, TX. I am a specialist in maternal-fetal medicine and on faculty in the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center. It is the nature of my specialty that I deal with high-risk pregnancies and would be the consultant called to deal with issues regarding the ``life-of-the-mother.'' I can tell you unequivocally there is no maternal medical reason for ``late-term abortions.'' In situations where the life of the mother is at stake, we simply deliver the infants and the baby takes its chances in the nursery. ``Dear Senator Smith,'' Mary Davenport, Oakland, CA: I am writing to you in support of the partial-birth abortion bill. There is no medical indication for this procedure, and the performance of this operation is totally in opposition to 2,000 years of Hippocratic medical ethics. Please do your best to eliminate this procedure. It is not done in any other nation of the world. Margaret Nordell, M.D., caring for women of all ages, Minot, ND: I am a member of the DakotaCare Physicians Association. I believe that this procedure is unnecessary to protect either the life or health of women in this country. Dr. Karin Shinn, Coney Island Hospital: Dear Senator Smith: I am a practicing ob-gyn on the staff of Coney Island Hospital. It is my professional opinion that the partial-birth abortion procedure is very dangerous and absolutely unnecessary to protect either the life or the health of the women in America. Letter after letter after letter, Mr. President, all over the country. To say that somehow the U.S. Senator who stands here on the floor, quoting from doctors about a medical procedure, to taking the ``slam'' that somehow we cannot vote for something or talk about something because we are not doctors--we send troops into Bosnia, that will happen. And I assure you that every Senator who votes to send them there has never served in combat and probably never been there. That is for sure. We vote on Medicare and we vote on Medicaid and not everybody here is a senior citizen. The argument is absolutely ludicrous and frankly insulting. I hope my colleagues will defeat the Boxer amendment and support the Smith-Dole amendment. Exhibit 1 Philadelphia, PA, November 28, 1995. Hon. Robert Smith, U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. Dear Senator Smith: I appreciate your efforts on behalf of the ``partial birth abortion'' controversy. In no way are these done only on abnormal infants. This is just another brutal way to destroy life. This procedure is not necessary to protect the life or health of women in this country. [[Page S 18197]] Thank you again and keep up the fight to protect our children. Sincerely, Dorothy Czarnecki, M.D.

Mr. SMITH. I yield myself 3 minutes 22 seconds. Mr. President, it is very frustrating. Again, I will just repeat for emphasis for those, I hope, who are listening to the debate: Viki Wilson in her testimony not only indicated that she did not have a partial-birth abortion, she said she would not have one. So these are not partial-birth abortions. But again I will not continue to debate it. Any reasonable person, hopefully, who is watching the debate would understand the definition is very clear. A partial-birth abortion is when a child is killed in the birth canal. These two women in the horrible circumstances they went through lost their children in the womb. This amendment would not prevent what happened to them. Since I have been accused of not being a doctor, which is a fair accusation, let me offer into the Record a sample of the 200 unsolicited letters from ob-gyn's from all over America. I ask unanimous consent that all of these be printed in the Record after this debate.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, how much time remains?

Mr. SMITH. I yield 2 minutes to myself and ask to be notified when the 2 minutes are up. Let me just say that this Dole-Smith amendment provides a life-of- the-mother exception. We had an affirmative defense in the bill. Members came to me and said, ``We want it a little more clarified.'' I said, ``Fine,'' and we clarified it because I think Senators sincerely had a concern about that--even though there have been no witnesses to testify that the mother's life was ever a problem. Let me just say that this applies to any situation in which a pregnant woman's life is physically threatened by any pregnancy, complication, or other disorder, and a partial-birth abortion is the only means by which her life can be saved. That is the life-of-the-mother exception. It is very clear. There is no question about it. If we go to the Boxer partial-birth abortion on demand amendment, it allows partial-birth abortions on demand throughout the full 9 months of the pregnancy. If a woman has any health [[Page S 18196]] problem that she so indicates, then any child could be aborted for any reason. That is a fact. We voted on this before on the floor of the Senate, and we voted it down. I hope that we will vote it down now and have a true life-of-the- mother exception, as we have tried to do. I remember in the debate when the Senator from California, and others, made a big case here on the floor to please have the life-of- the-mother exception, have it clarified. We have done that. In fact, I voted to send the bill back to committee to have time to do that and to hear the testimony of the witnesses. I will conclude on this point, Mr. President. We had no doctors who performed partial-birth abortions testifying and no women who had them testifying. So I am not sure what the committee hearing produced. Thank you, Mr. President.

Mr. SMITH. Yes. This bill is very clear and specific, and it outlines this procedure in the birth canal. That is all this allows. I say that in sincerity to the Senator because I know he feels very strongly. I must say to him, that is the fact. Why Senators would come down here and testify to things that are not accurate, you will have to ask them. Listen, here is the exact language of my bill: The term partial-birth abortion means an abortion in which the person performing the abortion partially, vaginally delivers a living fetus before killing the fetus and completing the delivery. When I read the testimony of the two women, both of them said their child died in their womb peacefully. Now, dying in womb peacefully-- does that say ``an abortion in which the person performing the abortion partially, vaginally delivers a living fetus before killing the fetus and completing the delivery''? That is what this bill stops. That is all it stops. That is all it says. That is exactly what it says. I say to my colleagues, no matter how you feel on the issue, please, at least accept facts as being facts. This is the floor of the U.S. Senate. We have an obligation to tell the truth. That is not the truth, what Senator Boxer is saying. Whether it is meant to be or thought to be is another issue. But it is not fact. I know what my bill says. That is what it says. I just read it to you. How much time is remaining?

Mr. SMITH. It is a fact that that is the family, but it is not a fact that they had a partial-birth abortion.

Mr. SMITH. Reclaiming my time, Mr. President, when you look out the window and it is raining, and the person sitting next to you says it is not raining--I mean, you can argue this, but facts are facts. I am not demeaning the testimony of Viki Wilson or Coreen Costello. They were very, very moving stories. This Senator was very moved by those stories. But they are not partial-birth abortions. This Senator's bill, and all the amendments we are talking about on the bill, does not stop the procedure that Viki Wilson and Coreen Costello had. I will now repeat and read verbatim from the testimony of Viki Wilson. Please listen carefully and make your own judgment. Viki Wilson said: My daughter died with dignity inside my womb. She was not stabbed in the back of the head with scissors. No one dragged her out half alive and killed her. We would never have allowed that.

Mr. SMITH. Yes.

Mr. SMITH. The Senator is correct.

Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, I hope my colleagues are listening carefully at this stage of the debate, because we are down now to where we are about to vote on two very important amendments related to this bill. Senator Boxer has taken the time to go through two very compelling cases, very tragic cases. Both of those women testified before the Judiciary Committee, and that was heart-rending testimony. I viewed the testimony. I have read it. There is only one problem, and I have said it, Senator DeWine has said it and others have said it: These women did not have partial-birth abortions. I will repeat, these women did not have partial-birth abortions. Coreen Costello and Viki Wilson did not have partial-birth abortions. Senator Boxer knows that, and both of the young women know that. A partial-birth abortion specifically is killing a child who is 90 percent born through the birth canal by the use of the catheter and the scissors. Now, let me read from the testimony of Coreen Costello: When I was put under anesthesia, Katherine's heart stopped. She was able to pass away peacefully inside my womb, which was the most comfortable place for her to be. When I awoke a few hours later, she was brought to us. She was beautiful. She was not missing any part of her brain. She had not been stabbed in the head with scissors. She looked peaceful. Mr. President, that is my point.

Mr. SMITH. I yield 5 minutes to the Senator from Pennsylvania.

Mr. SMITH. I will yield 5 minutes to the Senator from Texas, Mr. Gramm.