Charles Taylor

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. A few weeks ago, we passed legislation that would stop the disastrous fires. It will take a long period of time. It will take management plans to be implemented to get rid of the crowded undergrowth and stop the fires that are costing us billions of dollars and burning up tens of millions of acres of our forests. Let me tell my colleagues, these forest plans, and there are 40 forest plan revisions under way, 36 of these plans are more than 15 years old. Unless regulations are changed, 52 more are expected to go beyond the 15-year limit in the next decade. We cannot make any progress in fighting fires, stopping fires, not having to spend the money and the millions of dollars unless we get plans that are going to take less than 15 years, and yet most of these plans are going to do. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Minnesota (Mr. Gutknecht).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume to remind all of us that we spend millions of dollars in research. Science is going on in modern silviculture every year. We have forest research stations, we have private research stations, we have all our universities with schools of forestry participating in the science, and so it is working every day. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Stenholm). (Mr. STENHOLM asked and was given permission to revise and extend his remarks.)

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Idaho (Mr. Otter).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume, and I rise in opposition to the amendment. In the beginning, there was no limit to snowmobiles in these parks. In the last days of the Clinton administration, the administration barred all snowmobiles from the parks. Clearly, people live in the parks and this was not acceptable, emergency purposes. We had to come up with a program that would be reasonable, and I think this plan that is in place or will be in place is a balanced approach that addresses air quality, noise, wildlife, and safety concerns while continuing to allow the American public access to enjoy the parks during the winter months. For the first time, a strict daily limit will be placed on the number of vehicles, and the snowmobiles must achieve at least a 90 percent reduction in hydrocarbons and a 70 percent reduction in carbon monoxide compared to conventional two-stroke engines. We now have four-stroke engines. The sound question is that no more than 73 decibels of sound, a five- decibel reduction, has been put in place and 80 percent of the snowmobiles will be commercially guided. We have tried to reach a balanced plan that I think is reasonable. I urge a ``no'' vote on this amendment. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from Montana (Mr. Rehberg).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 4 minutes to the gentleman from California (Mr. Radanovich).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentlewoman from Wyoming (Mrs. Cubin).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. Manzullo).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I make a point of order against the amendment because it proposes to change existing law and constitutes legislation in an appropriation bill and therefore violates clause 2 of rule XXI. The rule states in pertinent part: ``An amendment to a general appropriation bill shall not be in order if changing existing law.'' The amendment proposes to state a legislative position. I ask for a ruling from the Chair.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to this amendment, and I yield myself such time as I may consume. This amendment is bad policy. We should not stop all activities on the national level. Each national forest deserves to get decisions based on local commissions and based on specific situations. We have four lawsuits going on this already. One Federal judge has already ruled that there are problems with the Clinton administration's roadless rule. We need to have careful consideration before we lock up these areas and prevent multiple use. Wilderness area designations should be done site by site, not at this broad-brush national level. It is possible that some forests and roadless areas may need some treatments to reduce hazardous fuels. We need to be careful that we do not make a national policy that could lead to dangerous conditions. Half the areas covered by the Clinton roadless rule are at risk for catastrophic fire. The rule makes treatment of these areas a low priority when they should be a high priority. Already this year, fires that have started in roadless areas have destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres and burned several hundred homes. I urge my colleagues to defeat this amendment. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 10 seconds to the gentleman from Alaska (Mr. Young).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. Renzi).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from California (Mr. Pombo).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Peterson).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Nebraska (Mr. Osborne).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman from Idaho (Mr. Simpson).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1\1/2\ minutes to the gentleman from Oregon (Mr. Walden).

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time. There is much misinformation on this subject. The gentlewoman earlier said that the forest belongs to the public, and it does. It is the people's forest, no matter where they live; and that gives us a great responsibility because we cannot, through ignorance, destroy it. We want to save it because of the beauty it has, as well as the commercial value. President Roosevelt created the Forest Service to be harvested as a source of fiber for the country in the best scientific way possible as an example to private landowners on how to manage in the future their forests. The Park Service was created to not be harvested. It is inside the Department of the Interior. The Forest Service is inside the agricultural department. If someone going down the street has a heart attack, we do not want someone to come up off the pavement and say, well, I read a book about this, or I saw something on TV. I am ready to carve the fellow open and do something. We would want a professional to take care of the problem. We have our best schools of forestry at our universities. We have the best science at our experimental stations. We have the responsibility to protect the forests and to use the best science possible. I would urge all of my colleagues go to the universities that have the best schools of forestry and talk about that, because they train people there in the area of silviculture with modern technology. We can do wonderful things with that, in assessing what we can do in the forest rather than read a pamphlet and say we should have no roads; we should have no harvest at all. We must maintain the forests in a scientific manner. We have had environmental rules in the last 20 years that have probably destroyed 10 times more trees than have been harvested. The forests belongs to the people, but along with that is the responsibility to use the best educated people in our areas to maintain them. I urge a ``no'' vote on this amendment.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I claim the time in opposition.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I consume. Mr. Chairman, I have to reluctantly oppose the gentleman's amendment. I do not believe we should prejudge on an individual basis the outcome of these competitive sourcing studies. As the gentleman knows, I have included language in this bill which directs the agencies to complete all ongoing studies and report to the committee before taking any specific actions. We did this for several reasons. We are concerned that 50 percent of the National Park Service jobs are rated commercial in nature. We are also concerned that the agencies have been spending money without reprogramming to the committee for approval. While the Department of Interior seems to be doing a good job, we must insist that they follow the congressional rules because we are not a potted plant. We are here to maintain the Department and do our duty. I would ask the gentleman, however, to consider withdrawing his amendment and assure him that we will try to work with him on this, if possible.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. I yield to the gentleman from Nebraska.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. I would assure the gentleman that nothing has gone too far that could not be corrected. I ask again if the gentleman would withdraw his amendment. Otherwise, I will have to reluctantly oppose it.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.

Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.