John Warner

Mr. WARNER

Mr. WARNER. I remind the Senator of the parliamentary situation. While I have given him some suggestions, if he is going to amend it, it would take unanimous consent to amend the amendment.

Mr. WARNER. That is correct.

Mr. WARNER. The time agreement has been presented under the rules. I will address the question to the Chair. I think that would be best.

Mr. WARNER. Just as a friendly gesture, I advise my colleague of that.

Mr. WARNER. As the Senator reads the title and then the text, I have trouble following the continuity of the two. For example, first it is directing the President of the United States pursuant to the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution. I have been here 21 years. I think the Senator from Pennsylvania is just a year or two shy of that. This War Powers Resolution has never been accepted by any President, Republican or Democrat or otherwise. Am I not correct in that respect?

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, on behalf of the managers of this bill, we vigorously oppose this amendment. Right here on this desk is perhaps the most dramatic reason not to grant the request. This represents a hearing held by a joint committee of the Senate and House of the Congress of the United States in 1946. They had before them live witnesses, all of the documents, and it is clear from this and their findings that these two officers were then and remain today accused of serious errors in judgment which contributed to perhaps the greatest disaster in this century against the people of the United States of America. There are absolutely no new facts beyond those deduced in this record brought out by my distinguished good friend, the senior Senator from Delaware. For that reason, we oppose it.

Mr. WARNER. I move to lay that motion on the table. The motion to lay on the table was agreed to. Amendment No. 377

Mr. WARNER. Is the Senator from Virginia correct that the next vote will be on the amendment by the Senator from Kansas?

Mr. WARNER. And the Senator from Kansas and I understand, also, that our colleague, the ranking member of the committee, likewise supports the amendment.

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that both Senators be given 30 seconds.

Mr. WARNER. I move to reconsider the vote.

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I see the Senator from Pennsylvania, and I yield the floor. Amendment No. 383

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, on that point, we have been conducting a meeting for almost an hour in S-407, attended by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the National Security Adviser to the President, Mr. Berger, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. In the course of their presentations to some 40-plus Senators, in response to questions and in direct presentation, they reiterated that the President will formally come before the Congress and ask for any changes he deems necessary involving ground troops before he would implement or agree to implement with other NATO nations such a plan. That has just been stated on two occasions up in S-407. There was no equivocation. It was very clear in their declaration on behalf of the President. I acquainted them with the amendment which is now being debated on the floor of the Senate. Earlier indications from the Secretary of Defense to me today were that should this amendment as drawn now appear in a conference report, it would be the recommendation of the Secretaries of State and Defense to veto. I am pointing out to the Senate that again we revisit many, many times this whole war powers concept. We acknowledge that both Republican Presidents and Democrat Presidents have absolutely steadfastly refused to comply with the letter of the law, but they have complied with the spirit of the law. In this instance, the President has indicated to the Senate in that letter--and just now in the briefings by his principal Cabinet officers--that he would formally--I use the word ``formal'' to clarify--come to the Congress and request their concurrence for any departure from his preposition. That preposition was just moments ago restated by Secretaries Cohen and Albright in response to my question, which was, question No. 1, to allow me to return to the floor with regard to any nonpermissive force being put in place, which I favor, by the way, to send a signal. They said that would not be done. The President has no intention of doing it, nor do the NATO allies. And should the President decide at some later date, for whatever reason, to begin to preposition such forces, then he would come before the Congress prior thereto and get legislative approval. I believe very strongly that this amendment would put this bill in severe jeopardy in terms of getting it signed, and that the President and his principal advisers have in the past and again today advised the Congress that the President is prepared to deal with the spirit of this amendment and to come before the Congress and seek its formal concurrence by legislative action should he and other NATO allies in the future make a decision to depart from the present policy. I have just been handed a modification. It is one that the Senator from Pennsylvania and I have discussed. I don't know if my colleague has had an opportunity to see it. If there are other Senators who wish to speak, I need time within which to consider this modification. Unless other Senators seek recognition, I suggest the absence of a quorum.

Mr. WARNER. Therefore, we would not be precipitating in another one of those endless debates which would consume hours and hours of the time of this body if we are acting on the predicate that this President is now going to acknowledge that he, as President of the United States, is bound by what is law? I readily admit it is the law. But we have witnessed, over these 20-plus years that I have been here and over the years the Senator from Pennsylvania has been here, that no President will acknowledge that he is subservient to this act of Congress because he feels that it is unconstitutional; that the Constitution has said he is Commander in Chief and he has the right to make decisions with respect to the Armed Forces of the United States on a minute's notice. Really, this is what concerns me about this amendment, among other things.

Mr. WARNER. All right.

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I yield to the Senator 3 or 4 minutes.

Mr. WARNER. I have certainly no objection to that.

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, does Senator Specter want to reserve his time, and I will reserve my time, and then we can proceed to the Gramm amendment and come back to Senator Specter's amendment? I am sure he will allow that.

Mr. WARNER. And the time under the control of the Senator from Virginia, jointly shared with Senator Levin.

Mr. WARNER. That is fine. I asked for this meeting and have arranged it for the Senate. So I have to go upstairs. But I point out: Suppose we were to adopt this, and supposing that during the month of August when the Senate would be in recess the President had to make a decision with regard to ground troops. Then he would have to, practically speaking, bring the Congress back to town. Would that not be correct?

Mr. WARNER. But the reason for introducing ground troops, whatever it may be, might require a decision of less than an hour to make on behalf of the Chief Executive, the Commander in Chief, and he would be then shackled with the necessary time of, say, maybe 48 hours in which to bring the Members of Congress back from various places throughout the United States and throughout the world. To me, that imposes on the President something that was never envisioned by the Founding Fathers. And that is why he is given the power of Commander in Chief. Our power is the power of the purse, to which I again direct the Senator's attention in the text of the amendment. But it seems to me I find the title in conflict with the text of the amendment.

Mr. WARNER. How do we define ``emergency?'' Where the President can act without approval by the Congress, and in other situations where he must get the approval, who makes that decision?

Mr. WARNER. Where is it found in this amendment?

Mr. WARNER. Mr. President, I must depart and go upstairs to this meeting. But I will return as quickly as I can. I thank the Senator for his courtesy of protecting the floor in the interests of the manager of the bill.

Mr. WARNER. The Senator is aware that the Senator from Virginia will at an appropriate time move to table, and in all probability I will reserve the right to object to this amendment until the Senator from Pennsylvania seeks to amend the amendment.